The bringer of bad news?

[Doon frae Troon]

You find yourself in an awkward position when these situations occur you know you are correct you have the rules book in the bag but the FC is still not happy with the ruling that goes against him, which then makes for a decidedly frosty rest of round.
The easy answer sat here at a keyboard is you must call it and have the argument but its not that easy when out on the course.
An education system by clubs would help but how many members would actually attend rules nights? Those that do will be the ones that probably already have a good knowledge of the rules anyway?
Maybe an online quiz type of module to keep your H/cp at competition status?

I like that last para.

In the 1980's our club held a county event.

As a newish club we were the first in the County to have water hazards. [imagine that nowadays]
The interpretations by many single figure players to that rule was astounding.
The starter had to issue a warning to all players at the start of the second round

Well done Chrisd, keep up the good work. Unfortunately you seem to be in a declining minority.

 

[Fyldewhite]

To me, if someone says I'm not following a rule correctly I'm happy to have the discussion and if agreement can't be reached happy to play two balls and check later (I do find there is rarely enough time to dig out a rule book, find the right bit then have the discussion as to what it actually means there and then). Most importantly though, I really want to know if I'm right or wrong so regardless I'll nearly always check afterwards for my own peace of mind or just interest. Other players seem happy to go with whatever is decided at the time .... the "as long as we all agree......" brigade and presumably actually think that is OK regardless of being right or not???

As for OP, I wouldn't ever agree or go with the flow if people are clearly wrong. I'll maybe not make a big issue of it if it won't materially effect much but would always say what I thought. Usually playing with folk I know well so bad feeling not really an issue......it's usually more of a points scoring exercise when one or other is proved right in the bar. In opens etc though it can be more of an issue but if they get upset then so be it......their problem.

 

[chrisd]

U

As for OP, I wouldn't ever agree or go with the flow if people are clearly wrong. I'll maybe not make a big issue of it if it won't materially effect much but would always say what I thought. Usually playing with folk I know well so bad feeling not really an issue......it's usually more of a points scoring exercise when one or other is proved right in the bar. In opens etc though it can be more of an issue but if they get upset then so be it......their problem.

After a couple of issues with one of the players I just, in the end, said what the rule was but when he wasn't happy, I just said "I've explained the rule, if you don't agree, just do what you want" he was never in contention but all 3 of the rest of the group were and I was fed up with it affecting my game.

 

[Fish]

Would you sign their card?

No, I would have my ruling/observation that I highlighted to them on the course clarified and if they had a chance to play 2 balls at that time and chose not to, then tough titty.

 

[hovis]

I played a pro am yesterday and the pro in my group had to point out to the professional leading the group infront that they had tee'd off on the wrong tee's on the hole they just played.

The discussion didn't exactly get heated but the offending team made it clear they weren't happy.

My pro said " dont direct you frustrations at me! Im doing this so you can make necessary adjustments to your card so you don't det dq'd"

 

[chrisd]

I played a pro am yesterday and the pro in my group had to point out to the professional leading the group infront that they had tee'd off on the wrong tee's on the hole they just played.

The discussion didn't exactly get heated but the offending team made it clear they weren't happy.

My pro said " dont direct you frustrations at me! Im doing this so you can make necessary adjustments to your card so you don't det dq'd"

Exactly Hovis, shoot the messenger!

 

[la_lucha]

Would you sign their card?

Nope, but at the end of the round you haven't got to spend another three hours in bad company. You can go home if you like. Causing an atmosphere on the cause ruins it for you as much as them. Not signing the card you can leave if you wish.

 

[chrisd]

Nope, but at the end of the round you haven't got to spend another three hours in bad company. You can go home if you like. Causing an atmosphere on the cause ruins it for you as much as them. Not signing the card you can leave if you wish.

Not exactly in this case. I was at a finals day, there was a sit down meal afterwards and, more particularly, I wasn't marking either of the two guys cards.

 

[woody69]

Explaining a rule to someone who genuinely has no idea is easy. They listen and play without question. The issue comes with players that think they know the correct rule. As they will always go, "I thought blah blah..." At the end of the day, human nature means we don't like being wrong so that's when people can get quite defensive.

I will always try and show them the actual rule on my phone app if I get a chance, but if there isn't time I just explain what I know the rule is and if they disagree they can play two balls if they wish Rule 3-3. 9 times out of 10 they'll carry on with what they think is right though.

 

[la_lucha]

Not exactly in this case. I was at a finals day, there was a sit down meal afterwards and, more particularly, I wasn't marking either of the two guys cards.

In that case I'd probably have pointed it out but not enforced it. If he had a winning score then i'd probably have reported it, if not then no need to cause an atmosphere.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree SILH, yesterday my mate won the comp and I was marking his card. He is pretty well clued up on the rules too and played absolutely to them. One of our FC's had a rules issue and had he done what he wanted to I think he might have just pipped my mate to win what was about £1k in prizes.

As he blobbed the hole after being advised as to the correct procedure he was decidedly miffed with me.

Well done sir. A perfect example of why it is important to help your PPs or FCs understand and apply the rules properly - and why you should not be embarrassed by doing so or put off by reluctance on the part of those you are 'helping'. It always makes a difference - this time it made a big difference for your mate

 

[chrisd]

Well done sir. A perfect example of why it is important to help your PPs or FCs understand and apply the rules properly - and why you should not be embarrassed by doing so or put off by reluctance on the part of those you are 'helping'. It always makes a difference - this time it made a big difference for your mate

It certainly makes you wonder what they've won that they maybe shouldn't, after all, the incidents that happened were quite basic things to know. I feel as others have said that you get the "well, if you're going to take it that seriously" feeling thrown at you as well as the "I'm not getting fair relief if I drop it in THAT rough" and, believe me, it's my fault for knowing the rules and not theirs for not knowing them!

 

[user2010]

What were the infringements?, if you don`t mind me asking?:thup:

 

[Colin L]

I agree SILH, yesterday my mate won the comp and I was marking his card. He is pretty well clued up on the rules too and played absolutely to them. One of our FC's had a rules issue and had he done what he wanted to I think he might have just pipped my mate to win what was about £1k in prizes.

As he blobbed the hole after being advised as to the correct procedure he was decidedly miffed with me.

I’m a bit puzzled. If your concern is how to go about telling a fellow competitor about a breach of the rules, what did you say you to your mate on the subject of £1k in prizes and the rules of amateurism? Or have I misunderstood something?

 

[chrisd]

What were the infringements?, if you don`t mind me asking?:thup:

Declaring a ball lost in order to play provisional

Drops for nearest point of relief - several

Drop from water hazards

Plugged ball in rough

 

[chrisd]

I’m a bit puzzled. If your concern is how to go about telling a fellow competitor about a breach of the rules, what did you say you to your mate on the subject of £1k in prizes and the rules of amateurism? Or have I misunderstood something?

The prize was a custom set of irons and a 4 ball voucher for a local course

 

[rulie]

It certainly makes you wonder what they've won that they maybe shouldn't, after all, the incidents that happened were quite basic things to know. I feel as others have said that you get the "well, if you're going to take it that seriously" feeling thrown at you as well as the "I'm not getting fair relief if I drop it in THAT rough" and, believe me, it's my fault for knowing the rules and not theirs for not knowing them!

I wonder if the people playing in the competition expect it to be played within the Rules? Perhaps the organizers have the same expectation? Rhetorical questions, as it's obvious that everyone has that expectation!
Explain the Rule to them, and the correct procedure. If they choose to do it differently and against the Rules, just tell them that you will bring it up to the Committee before the cards are returned. That's your (and everyone's) responsibility to the competitors and organizing Committee.
Don't worry about it, just do it.

 

[Colin L]

The prize was a custom set of irons and a 4 ball voucher for a local course

Interesting ....

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize.... in excess of £500 or the equivalent....
[Rule 3-2a
Rules of Amateur Status]

 

[pogle]

I wonder if the people playing in the competition expect it to be played within the Rules? Perhaps the organizers have the same expectation? Rhetorical questions, as it's obvious that everyone has that expectation!
Explain the Rule to them, and the correct procedure. If they choose to do it differently and against the Rules, just tell them that you will bring it up to the Committee before the cards are returned. That's your (and everyone's) responsibility to the competitors and organizing Committee.
Don't worry about it, just do it.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about the bit in bold. I think a lot of club players are happy with what happens out there so long as people aren't obviously breaking the rules or taking the p***. I hear lots of comments along the lines of "Well, there's no real advantage gained so I can't see the problem".

Anyway, as rulie says - bring it to the notice of the committee and let them sort it out.

 

[chrisd]

Interesting ....

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize.... in excess of £500 or the equivalent....
[Rule 3-2a
Rules of Amateur Status]

As he hasent had the prizes yet I've suggested that he speak to the competition organisers to stay within the limits.