studying physics has helped my game (long boring thread!)

[Maninblack4612]

When a ballet dancer does a pirouette if he or she extends the arms outward the speed of the pirouette slows down. If the arms are drawn in, the pirouette speeds up. The reason is the “conservation of angular momentum” As the centre of gravity of the rotating system moves further away from the centre of rotation the angular momentum, which is a function of the speed of rotation and distance of the C of G from the centre of rotation, must stay the same and therefore the speed of rotation decreases.

Applying this to the golf swing, time lapse photography shows that, leading up to impact, the arms & hands are slowing down, because the C of G of the rotating system, i.e. the arms & shoulders, are getting further away from the point of rotation, the place where the shoulders meet the spine.

The conclusion I reached was that, if the above was the case, any attempt to move the arms independently was likely to slow down the swing. I tried to get a feel whereby the upper body & shoulders are rotating and the arms are being dragged along.

Another physicist concluded that, based on the size of the various muscles in the body, the hands can only contribute 0.7% to the speed of the swing, and then only if the hit with the hands is perfectly timed. If it isn’t, it will actually slow the swing down. He suggests that no effort be made to hit with the hands but to simply allow the club to release naturally as the arms are dragged through by the shoulders. He points to the example of a Trebuchet, the most efficient method ever devised of hurling heavy objects vast distances. He says that the rope attached to the sling is the equivalent of the golf shaft and, because it is completely flexible, there cannot be any force applied in the direction of the clubhead path.

Have a look at this: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/swing/golfSwingPhysics3b.php#treb

The writer says “Think about it; if the club had a perfectly flexible shaft -- like the rope sling of a trebuchet -- then there is no way to apply wrist torque to get any action from the clubhead”

Anyway, getting to the point, the above has revolutionised my swing and all the pulls, slices and a lot of the fat shots have gone. Admittedly I am, as Jim Hardy would describe it, a “One Plane” swinger and this method suits the one plane swing but I honestly think that understanding more about the mechanics of the swing has helped my game a lot.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Interesting.

I've found the biomechanics / swing mechanics section of golfloopy.com very good. In particular it's helped me to understand where power comes from and how it's counter intuitive to my perception. Worth a look. As is that whole website in my opinion.

 

[Foxholer]

Flawed Model = Flawed Results.

Swing a Golf club - a rigid rod - is not the same as swinging a Trebuchet.

It's like comparing the 2 different weapons Mace and Flail.

Here's the article I was referring to in an earlier discussion of similar issues http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Cour...nsight into the important of wrist torque.pdf

Their article does make reference to Jorgenson's claim of 0.7% benefit from wrist torque.

Their conclusion was that up to 9% better speed at impact could be attained with optimal wrist torque.

I will continue to use wrist torque in my swing. I bet a 'proper' club-fitter would not recommend the same shaft for you and me. I suit a 'low torque'. I believe a higher torque one would be fine for you.

It's not 'all bad news' though. Bobby Jones has stated that he felt his swing was 'free-wheeling' through impact, so you are in respected company!

 

[Maninblack4612]

I don't think Mr. Tutelman would argue that wrist torque can add to the swing speed, although he might dispute the amount. And how often can we achieve "optimal"? In my case, not very often, if I try, I'm all over the place. A mate of mine, 4 handicapper does it & he has a hook that is so big it amounts to a swing fault. I think applying wrist torque is more likely to close the club face than add speed, especially if mistimed. And I'm not sure the model is flawed. The string in the Trebuchet is so taut it acts like a rigid shaft and the point is that it is so powerful without any torque applied to the rope.

Whatever, the theory, however inaccurate, has revolutionised my game & I have never hit as many dead straight shots. Some may be left or right but very few hook or slice. I put this down to the absolute lack of any wrist torque in the swing. And I can hit it further than practically any other 67 year old I know.

I will study that article, Foxholer, although I'm afraid I'll have to skip over the maths. I got A level physics in 1969 but forgot most of it the week after I sat the exam.

 

[Foxholer]

Nothing wrong with using the Trebuchet model to demonstrate that wrist torque is not essential to effective swing speed. But to conclude that there is, therefore, no benefit is wrong.

What you seem to have discovered is that trying to add WT doesn't work - in your case. So if a coach comes comes along and suggest that you must add it, you would be justified in telling him where to go! It's all about what works for the individual. That's why fixed 'methods' collapse imo. They are just not applicable to everyone!

 

[Maninblack4612]

That's why fixed 'methods' collapse imo. They are just not applicable to everyone!

Hear hear to that. It makes me laugh reading a lot of golf magazine "here's how to do it" when it should be "here's how I do it & it's not the only way" My original post might not have come over that way but it was in the vein of "this is what works for me"

 

[Maninblack4612]

Here's the article I was referring to in an earlier discussion of similar issues http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Cour...nsight into the important of wrist torque.pdf

Their article does make reference to Jorgenson's claim of 0.7% benefit from wrist torque.

Their conclusion was that up to 9% better speed at impact could be attained with optimal wrist torque.

I've read the article a few times, I understand some of it! I still think that the chances of timing it right are so slim that you'll reduce rather than increase clubhead speed 9 time out of 10. I am also firmly convinced that, in applying wrist torque, you run the risk of opening, or more likely, closing the clubface. Can I ask you, Foxholer, do you hook or slice a lot? Since I adopted this totally passive wrist position I rarely do anything but hit it straight. The ball will go off target, sometimes by a lot, mostly through reducing the spine angle on the backswing, but mostly it's a pull or push, demonstrating that the clubface & swing path are aligned.

Obviously, the article describes a model. I can't see how you'd measure the effect on a real golfer, except possibly by a series of swings, using both methods on a simulator, which would be quite interesting.

The science of golf is endlessly fascinating!

 

[Foxholer]

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