state pension age 70

hovis said:
The biggest grip not mention in that document is the fitness tests. The government doctor and consultant even said we shouldnt be working past 56 and to give us desk jobs. But there are alot more ff's than office staff
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Read the Open letter I attached. It explains clearly the situation regarding fitness and how the tests would be applied and they sound very reasonable. If it's that bad how come its been accepted by the Scottish Fire Fighters?

Who exactly do you think should finance your unaffordable existing conditions? Is it fair that many hard working tax payers who earn much less with vastly inferior or non existent pensions should prop you up? You don't seem to get the fact that the country is massively in debt and having to borrow billions a month to pay for these things. If the country went bankrupt you would get nothing.
 
SocketRocket said:
Read the Open letter I attached. It explains clearly the situation regarding fitness and how the tests would be applied and they sound very reasonable. If it's that bad how come its been accepted by the Scottish Fire Fighters?



Who exactly do you think should finance your unaffordable existing conditions? Is it fair that many hard working tax payers who earn much less with vastly inferior or non existent pensions should prop you up? You don't seem to get the fact that the country is massively in debt and having to borrow billions a month to pay for these things. If the country went bankrupt you would get nothing.
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The scottish ff's argreed a ten year protection on pensions ( they still wasnt happy though) but this is where it gets crafty by the scotts. If england and wales fail to improve the terms then scotland keep theirs as it was already agreed. If england and wales win then the scottish ff's get the fruits of that too as its a uk agreement. Not bad ey! So thats why the scotts agreed it And ff pensions are funded by Incoming ff's. Kind of self sustaining. But as the government of cutting the amount
Of Ff's by a large amount the sums ent adding up. As for the fitness test. Its very easy for 30 year man but almost impossible for a man over 56 and women over 49
 
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hovis said:
I dont remember saying 1500 then take pension off. Maybe I did! And when
Did I say times are bad? just saying people think ff'sand police have it easy. We dont. I think people like you should have more respect for people that are employed to help you and your family rather then slag us down by calling us cake eaters. All we want is the term we agreed to. You will be the first person moaning when a 64 year old ff leaves your family in a burning building because he's popped a disk.
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There you go, it's 64 now. I guess he would turn up on his own, or in a crew only made up of 60 year olds?

No one has belittled the job FF do when on duty, the discussion is about terms and conditions. What has happened in the past is unaffordable and if you sat back and thought about it you should be able to understand that. The proposals currently offered seem very fair and represent a package that still rewards the special job FF do.
 
hovis said:
I dont remember saying 1500 then take pension off. Maybe I did! And when
Did I say times are bad? just saying people think ff'sand police have it easy. We dont. I think people like you should have more respect for people that are employed to help you and your family rather then slag us down by calling us cake eaters. All we want is the term we agreed to. You will be the first person moaning when a 64 year old ff leaves your family in a burning building because he's popped a disk.
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Sorry but lost respect for firemen a long time ago and not much will change every time they go on strike. And you are certainly not helping my family out when you are on strike are you.
 
hovis said:
Nothings wrong with that at all. just all the benefits of the years spent building up your pension are gone. If you left/forced even a year early you loose your lump sum. £75k is alot of money to loose
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If you left on your own choice then that is your own choice.

What do you mean "forced" to leave ? You don't lose benefits earned - certainly doesn't say that in the letter SR posted up
 
SocketRocket said:
There you go, it's 64 now. I guess he would turn up on his own, or in a crew only made up of 60 year olds?

No one has belittled the job FF do when on duty, the discussion is about terms and conditions. What has happened in the past is unaffordable and if you sat back and thought about it you should be able to understand that. The proposals currently offered seem very fair and represent a package that still rewards the special job FF do.
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Your not getting it.

Imagine you and you wife start planning for retirement. You've spent 39 years paying in 300 a month into your pension. Thats £120,000. You wife says " lets sell up and move to the country or spain. Then you perform a manditory fitness test that the government doctor said at 54 you only stand a 40% chance of passing. You then think " bloody hell, i'm 59" AND YOU FAIL ( which according to the governments doctor is more likely than not. You go home and tell your wife you sacked and forget the 75 k lump sum, Its gone!!!!!!!
 
Sorry but what is this lump sum of £75 grand you keep,referring too and why would you lose it ?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Sorry but what is this lump sum of £75 grand you keep,referring too and why would you lose it ?
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At the moment its 100k but changing to 75. You can either choose a two thirds pension and no lump sum or a half pension with a 75k lump sum. If you choose the latter you only get it if you complete the full term. A guy at work died 3 days before retirement and his wife didnt get it. The union took them to court and won but thats a different story
 
Is this a private pension plan you are taking about or a government funded one ?

Can you post up the exact details of the changes
 
hovis said:
And ff pensions are funded by Incoming ff's. Kind of self sustaining. But as the government of cutting the amount Of Ff's by a large amount the sums ent adding up. As for the fitness test. Its very easy for 30 year man but almost impossible for a man over 56 and women over 49
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The FF pensions are not funded by by incoming FF payments. The vast amount is funded by the exchequer, there is no big box at the treasury where your contributions sit to pay for pensions. Think about it: If a FF average salary over 30 years was £30K and he paid 15% into his pension he would pay £4.5K a year, so he would pay £135K into the pension pot. That would buy him a pension of something like £6k a year on the market with no lump sum.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Sorry but lost respect for firemen a long time ago and not much will change every time they go on strike. And you are certainly not helping my family out when you are on strike are you.
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Easy fix. if your house is on fire or you've crashed your car dont call us. And did you know that when we are on strikes the pumps are still available? Crewed by retained fireman, officers and private ferms (london only)
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Sorry but lost respect for firemen a long time ago and not much will change every time they go on strike. And you are certainly not helping my family out when you are on strike are you.[/QUOTEOi ! you guys are messing up my thread. Who would you prefer to fight our fires and defend our country against enemies fire fighters , armed forces. or members of the governing bodies who NEVER get pay cuts and their pensions and pay offs get bigger. lets not fight between ourselves.
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SocketRocket said:
The FF pensions are not funded by by incoming FF payments. The vast amount is funded by the exchequer, there is no big box at the treasury where your contributions sit to pay for pensions. Think about it: If a FF average salary over 30 years was £30K and he paid 15% into his pension he would pay £4.5K a year, so he would pay £135K into the pension pot. That would buy him a pension of something like £6k a year on the market with no lump sum.
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With ff's dieing very soon after retirement the new blood comin in vastly out weighed the old. However, with the mortality rate increasing and cutts to front line jobs it become unsustaible.
 
hovis said:
Easy fix. if your house is on fire or you've crashed your car dont call us. And did you know that when we are on strikes the pumps are still available? Crewed by retained fireman, officers and private ferms (london only)
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Actually I will still call the fire service to do the job they are handsomely paid ( with my taxes ) to do.

But your attitude is exactly why I lost respect for firemen - well it started when I was doing their job for them ( and not getting any money for and having to work a lot of extra hours )
 
hovis said:
Iike I said I would be happy to provide details of the proposed changes. The union and ministers are talking today and tomorrow. I will ask if the document is Confidential before I put it on a public forum
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So,that document isn't the proposed changes then ? Despite it being a couple weeks old ?
 
What was wrong with that document and what they were offering ?

Still get overtime ?
 
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