Stack & Tilt.......those that do

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Have shot loads of decent scores this year under my h/cap but it hasn't affected my h/cap (yet) as I only played 3 comps this year and had 2x 0.1's and a buffer.


I'm trying to persuade myself to go to the practice ground next year....... ooooh, is that the kettle boiling? Must dash.....

So you back a method that actually does not work well for you???

It does work well for me, I don't practice or even play that often so I don't expect to be a scratch golfer in a hurry. I shot 4 over last time out in testing conditions and that's good enough for me right now. Not sure what my plans are for next year yet.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I'm sure there are a lot of different ways a golfer can play golf but it's important to find the BEST way for each person to play golf.

And that way might be stack and tilt... so when are you going to start teaching it?

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Used to be a top AM but he's now a proper Pro on the Europro tour,John Gallagher from Swanston,cack hander but I remember Jamie Browne who used to be at Torphin saying he tried to change in the early days to normal but couldny hit the thing!

John Gallagher, that's the guy. Came to Goswick to play a few years ago. Genuinely good golfer but who would teach that grip? Goes to show that there is not one 'right' method to play golf.

Thanks Dodger

 

[USER1999]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I think that people need to be more open with what might work. To me, in ten years time there will still only be one main swing in golf, and it won't be S&T. It won't be the current swing either. It will adapt, and the sooner people realise this the better. Everything evolves, and anything new is always frowned on. The future to me is more S&T biased, we will see.

The issue at the moment is the PGA trained Pro's teaching the one swing. So many of them won't read anything beyond this. Whereas in my job, I have to read around, keep up to date, innovate. May be there's some room to be more flexible.

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I'm sure there are a lot of different ways a golfer can play golf but it's important to find the BEST way for each person to play golf.

And that way might be stack and tilt... so when are you going to start teaching it?

Yet to come across someone that i think it's the best way for them to go. And no-one as yet has asked to learn it. I have had one person wanting to unlearn some of the elements of it and they subsequently improved a huge amount.

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

The issue at the moment is the PGA trained Pro's teaching the one swing. So many of them won't read anything beyond this. Whereas in my job, I have to read around, keep up to date, innovate. May be there's some room to be more flexible.

Just so you know, the PGA don't teach a swing method to the trainees. I don't think there are many PGA teaching pros that don't research the methods and theories that are in golf. There is so much information available about so many things. At the end of the day, swing technique is not the main factor that determines how good a golfer you become. It's important but in no way the most important element.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Yet to come across someone that i think it's the best way for them to go. And no-one as yet has asked to learn it. I have had one person wanting to unlearn some of the elements of it and they subsequently improved a huge amount.

So you've never taught it and form your judgement on one person that firstly DID learn it and then got a bit better afterwards... that's interesting because on that basis I reckon we should ALL learn it and then 'unlearn' it

You are right about swings though, it doesn't matter if you swing the club round your neck on one leg if you can hit the ball consistently, problem is that not all of us can do that...... wrong body shape

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

So you've never taught it and form your judgement on one person that firstly DID learn it and then got a bit better afterwards...

Is that your Dilbert reasoning again????

 

[USER1999]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

No, by far the most important thing as to how low you can go has zip to do with the swing, it is short game and putting.

However, how many teaching pro's have read Bennett and Plummers book? How many have just dismissed S&T out of hand? You say you have taught people to change away from it, but how many were doing it properly in the first place?

To me, it has benefits, bits of it resonate with me, in a way the more conventional swing doesn't. It isn't the b all and end all, but elements of it really do work. To ignore it is stupid. And too many teaching pro's are stuck in the past, teaching the same old swing, it's all they know.

 

[Screwback]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Have shot loads of decent scores this year under my h/cap but it hasn't affected my h/cap (yet) as I only played 3 comps this year and had 2x 0.1's and a buffer.


I'm trying to persuade myself to go to the practice ground next year....... ooooh, is that the kettle boiling? Must dash.....

So you back a method that actually does not work well for you???

It does work well for me, I don't practice or even play that often so I don't expect to be a scratch golfer in a hurry. I shot 4 over last time out in testing conditions and that's good enough for me right now. Not sure what my plans are for next year yet.

Thats fair enough but the point i am making is that if you only use it in bounce games at the moment can you really give a fair view on it in a more pressured situation like having a card in your hand?

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

No, by far the most important thing as to how low you can go has zip to do with the swing, it is short game and putting.

However, how many teaching pro's have read Bennett and Plummers book? How many have just dismissed S&T out of hand? You say you have taught people to change away from it, but how many were doing it properly in the first place?

To me, it has benefits, bits of it resonate with me, in a way the more conventional swing doesn't. It isn't the b all and end all, but elements of it really do work. To ignore it is stupid. And too many teaching pro's are stuck in the past, teaching the same old swing, it's all they know.

That's my point, i don't know any teaching pros that teach exactly the same thing to each of their students. And which parts of S&T that do work are different from the so called 'conventional swing' if there is such a thing? The goal of the golf swing is to apply pressure on the ball and more importantly control the ball flight with regards distance, direction, height and spin.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

So you've never taught it and form your judgement on one person that firstly DID learn it and then got a bit better afterwards...

Is that your Dilbert reasoning again????

I'm just trying to understand your reasoning that ONE person wanted to change back so therefore you knock it... whilst in the same breath you say that there isn't one swing to suit all so you'll only teach your way.

As you were.

 

[USER1999]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Well I've been doing that, and yes, after 20 years, when the chips are down, I've not trusted it. 5 times this year, I've been there, 6 over(or abouts) with 4 holes to go, and blown it. Now this could be me, melting, but I do have past history of closing it out. So the way I look at it is, I only started playing this way a year ago, so I'm still a beginner. It will come. And soon.

 

[Dodger]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

Well I've been doing that, and yes, after 20 years, when the chips are down, I've not trusted it. 5 times this year, I've been there, 6 over(or abouts) with 4 holes to go, and blown it. Now this could be me, melting, but I do have past history of closing it out. So the way I look at it is, I only started playing this way a year ago, so I'm still a beginner. It will come. And soon.

Ah,but it get's harder to close the deal the older you get especially over the age of 40.Don't put your swing down,it's just your arse that's the problem,it's from the same school as Westwood,

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I'm just trying to understand your reasoning that ONE person wanted to change back so therefore you knock it...

Where did i say that i knock it because of one persons experience?

I have a question for you

David Leadbetter is regarded as having a method of how he wants people to swing a golf club but why do the swings of the players that have worked with him and his staff look different?

eg. Charles Howell compared to David Frost

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I have to say I only dipped my toe in the very edge of these murky S&T waters after and enjoyable game with James and HTL. He took the time to explain (about 45 minutes and really clearly) how the physics work, what is about and why it worked for him. I have to say I did go away and try it and the ball striking aspect changed enormously and was as pure as I'd hit it (yes even with lessons) for years. However I think I started to get issues with the weight movement side of things and evenutally got the shanks primarily because my weight would move forward during the swing and so would introduce the hosel instead of the face to the ball.

I had a lesson with a club pro (Sand Martins) as I needed the quick fix to stop the horror shot and to be honest have scared myself of trying again. However with all the bad weather around I am sorely tempted to give it a couple of range sessions and just have a play around with the concept. If nothing comes of it I'm happy to carry on as I am. I really don't get this argument about people not wanting it. I think a lot of it is people not knowing it is out there and a lack of teachers prepared to put the effort in to learn it and be able to teach it successfully.

That said a lot of teachers are very very good and some like Bob in particular come on here for free and help others. They teach a very different way to the S&T method built on the common swing fundamentals and try and keep it as easy as they can. They do a brilliant job. The point that I think Charlie, James and Murph are sort of dancing around and not grasping is that there will never be a definitive way of teaching and as technology evolves and coaching moves on a lot of new methods may emerge.

My point is there are those that want it, those that use it and those that don't. If you can find something that works (Furyk and Trevino) then stick with it. Get a good short game too and you'll be competitive.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

So you back a method that actually does not work well for you???

It does work well for me, I don't practice or even play that often so I don't expect to be a scratch golfer in a hurry. I shot 4 over last time out in testing conditions and that's good enough for me right now. Not sure what my plans are for next year yet.

Thats fair enough but the point i am making is that if you only use it in bounce games at the moment can you really give a fair view on it in a more pressured situation like having a card in your hand?

My swing is my swing, pressure doesn't come into it for me, I just hit the ball. In two of the medals I played in this year I putted like a numpty and the other was one stray shot and a couple of ridiculous bounces... naturally I'd like to blame the course but it's nothing that a few hours on the range wouldn't fix. I have no expectations as i don't practice, I'm a realist and understand that I'll never be a great putter if I don't spend at least SOME time on the practice green, i'll never chip stone dead if I don't practice my chipping and I won't hit every green from 150yds if i don't get onthe practice ground... frankly i'm surprised at the scores I get at the moment and that I can even get the club on the ball!

I'm quite happy with the way my swing held up when I shot 67, finished with birdie then 3 pars, so I'm feeling pretty good alround and looking forward to next year in a perverted 'punished by the golf course' kind of way

 

[percy_layer]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

The point that I think Charlie, James and Murph are sort of dancing around and not grasping is that there will never be a definitive way of teaching

Thankyou

I've been trying to say just this, probably not very clearly.
There are so many variables involved that each player is different with different abilities and potential. S&T may help some players but not all, same as any other method, and there have been plenty to choose from over the years.

Just look at 4 of the players competing this weekend in different tournaments.
Graeme McDowell
Rory McIlroy
Tiger Woods
Lee Westwood
All have different swing patterns but all hit it amazing and mainly have control of the ball flight.

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

The point that I think Charlie, James and Murph are sort of dancing around and not grasping is that there will never be a definitive way of teaching

Thankyou

I've been trying to say just this, probably not very clearly.
There are so many variables involved that each player is different with different abilities and potential. S&T may help some players but not all, same as any other method, and there have been plenty to choose from over the years.

If that's what you were trying to say then I completely don't understand your opening post, what did you mean by it?.

As far I was aware the thread was supposed to be about THOSE THAT DO... not those that came to you and asked not to



as usual....... Fight!!!!!!

 

[JustOne]

Re: Stack & Tilt.......those that do

I have a question for you

David Leadbetter is regarded as having a method of how he wants people to swing a golf club but why do the swings of the players that have worked with him and his staff look different?

eg. Charles Howell compared to David Frost

Is this the patronising thread? If that's the case...

I have a question for you

Plummer & Bennett are regarded as having a method of how they want people to swing a golf club but why do the swings of the players that have worked with them and their staff look different?

eg. Charlie Wi compared to Aaron Baddeley