Stack and Tilt My verdict so far.

[evahakool]

First of all a big thanks to James (justone) after I sent him a pm he gave me some advice about this swing and recommended a book thats been a great help.

Having had a good season last year with shooting a pb and winning our Senior H/C, 3 club and a stableford comp. I was disapointed to finish the season on the same H/C as I started. I know the reason my H/C never came down was because my iron play was not good enough especially from 100 yards and in,I,ve never really felt in control of my swing.

So I thought I would give S+T a try, after trying to get the basics right which i found relativly easy, the first practice session went well and I was surprised to find I hit 80% of my shots well,so I knew this swing could help.
I felt alot more "loose" in the swing and it felt so simple
compared to the more conventional swing. It seems to me you have less movement with this swing and your mind is not full of alot of swing thoughts,just turn and swing through the ball so so simple.

I have played one round with this swing and alough I never played well and hit perhaps 60% of the shots well its early days and the ground was wet,so i did'nt let this put me off.

I went out tonight again for some practice and can honestly say I have never hit the ball so well.

Some might say if i went to a Pro.and had lessons i would get the same results,alough I have not had many lessons the ones I have had both the Pros. tried to get me to do things on the top of the back swing that I felt I was not capable of doing I,am 56 so not as supple as I once was and I did,nt think the pros took this into account.

I know there is alot of scepticism about S+T but all I can say it seems to be working for me so far.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've said all along that there is merit in it. James kindly spent a fair bit of time explaining the process to me but I've not really taken it any furhter. I really am thinking that this season (having invested money in some lessons over the winter) will be make or break and if I don't get to where I think I should be it'll be the next step.

It makes sense when James explained it and even if you don't go the whole S&T hog there are definitely requirements in there that you can take and incoroprate to amke a better swing

 

[big_russ]

Anyone considering Stack and Tilt should have a look at my club pro's YouTube channel. There is a set of 5 video blogs that he did for all interested club members that explains the basics of the swing pattern. In my opinion they are very good and lots of his knowledge has come direc from Plummer & Bennet.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dazhwood#p/u/1/XRi1pO4Um88

 

[evahakool]

Thanks for that Big Russ very helpfull.

 

[JustOne]

Anyone considering Stack and Tilt should have a look at my club pro's YouTube channel. There is a set of 5 video blogs that he did for all interested club members that explains the basics of the swing pattern. In my opinion they are very good and lots of his knowledge has come direc from Plummer & Bennet.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dazhwood#p/u/1/XRi1pO4Um88

Very Nice.

Being the picky little b*stard that I am, I'd suggest one more vid describing/showing in more detail the tilt angle of the shoulders towards the ball (sideways view).

 

[USER1999]

Glad it's going well, and hope it stays with you. despite the hate for it on here, it has a lot going for it.

I'm kind of back in love with S&T after last nights range session. Was nailing it, with every club in the bag. Marked improvement on last Sunday when it was barn door and banjo time.

 

[Ethan]

There isn't hate for SnT here, in fact I think it is an interesting method for shorter clubs, but I have some scepticism that people are really doing it rather than just staying a bit more centred over the ball. I am happy to be proved wrong with some videos from the GM SnT faithful.

 

[USER1999]

I have no idea if I am doing it properly (or if there is such a thing). I have taught my self from a book. What it has given me is a draw (after years of fading), a more solid strike, and a lot less lost golf balls. It works for me.

However, I would also question any one who believes they have a conventional swing? There are about 50 million conventional swings, no two are the same, even tour players. From what I see on the first tee at my golf course, there are some terrible swings out there masquerading as conventional.

How come there can only be one S&T swing? Surely it will evolve and diversify. That is the nature of golf. My swing is based on S&T, but remains my swing, not someone elses. It falls closer to S&T than conventional, so for now, I'll still call it S&T.

It also works fine through the bag, not just short irons.

 

[JustOne]

I have taught my self from a book. What it has given me is a draw (after years of fading), a more solid strike, and a lot less lost golf balls, and the last 10 or so rounds under my handicap. It works for me.

Fixed.

 

[Ethan]

I have no idea if I am doing it properly (or if there is such a thing). I have taught my self from a book. What it has given me is a draw (after years of fading), a more solid strike, and a lot less lost golf balls. It works for me.

However, I would also question any one who believes they have a conventional swing? There are about 50 million conventional swings, no two are the same, even tour players. From what I see on the first tee at my golf course, there are some terrible swings out there masquerading as conventional.

How come there can only be one S&T swing? Surely it will evolve and diversify. That is the nature of golf. My swing is based on S&T, but remains my swing, not someone elses. It falls closer to S&T than conventional, so for now, I'll still call it S&T.

It also works fine through the bag, not just short irons.

The principle is fine, and you should get more compression of the ball rather than a flicky handsy strike, but if you go to Golf Digest and look at the original article, there is a need to get the hip action in the downswing right otherwise you come in too steep. That is why it is more of a problem with longer clubs. Amateurs already come into the ball more steeply (and too steeply) with a driver than pros and if SnT makes that worse, they won't be able to flight the driver at all.

With a wedge, it is a great method and you should get a straighter more penetrating flight.

 

[USER1999]

I will accept that hitting the driver takes a while to fathom out, and is definitely the last club in the bag to fall into line. But once it works, there's no going back.

 

[JustOne]

That is why it is more of a problem with longer clubs. Amateurs already come into the ball more steeply (and too steeply) with a driver than pros and if SnT makes that worse, they won't be able to flight the driver at all.

Would someone want to change to S&T if they were already hitting their irons and driver well?



NB: Provided you are doing it somewhere near correctly it's easy to hit driver with S&T as there is more dynamic loft on the face at impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyWGHfudzs

 

[Ethan]

That is why it is more of a problem with longer clubs. Amateurs already come into the ball more steeply (and too steeply) with a driver than pros and if SnT makes that worse, they won't be able to flight the driver at all.

Would someone want to change to S&T if they were already hitting their irons and driver well?



NB: Provided you are doing it somewhere near correctly it's easy to hit driver with S&T as there is more dynamic loft on the face at impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyWGHfudzs

I agree that 'providing you are doing it .. correctly' it probably works. Therein lies the problem, though.

Can the average fat middle aged mid-handicapper do it somewhere near correctly?

 

[JustOne]

I agree that 'providing you are doing it .. correctly' it probably works. Therein lies the problem, though.

Why is that a problem? Do you not have to do the 'conventional' swing perfectly to be able to hit the ball properly?

Can the average fat middle aged mid-handicapper do it somewhere near correctly?

Yep. In fact it's probably an easier swing for them.

 

[Ethan]

I agree that 'providing you are doing it .. correctly' it probably works. Therein lies the problem, though.

Why is that a problem? Do you not have to do the 'conventional' swing perfectly to be able to hit the ball properly?

That is a problem because the steep descent does not allow you to flight the ball correctly unless you get the hip action right. The SnT method includes specific exercises to help get the correct feeling.

There is no one 'conventional swing' and for each variation there are a range of faults possible, some of which can be compensated for and some which can't. This is part of the problem. SnT advocates can't decide whether the 'method' is a separate method with a whole new way of looking at the awing, or one which borrows from things that many great players have always done. Can't have it both ways. SnT should stand or fall on its intrinsic merits.

 

[JustOne]

SnT advocates can't decide whether the 'method' is a separate method with a whole new way of looking at the awing, or one which borrows from things that many great players have always done. Can't have it both ways.

SnT advocates don't say that. They all agree it's the best way to consistently hit a golf ball.

 

[Ethan]

SnT advocates can't decide whether the 'method' is a separate method with a whole new way of looking at the awing, or one which borrows from things that many great players have always done. Can't have it both ways.

SnT advocates don't say that. They all agree it's the best way to consistently hit a golf ball.

I am sure they do, although that is a diversion from the point. I am also sure you have seen the evolution from SnT being presented as a free standing method with a specific set of moves to one which has been rebranded as the distillation of what everyone from Ben Hogan to Tiger Woods have been doing for years. Staying centred over the ball is possible with the 'conventional' swing, as you call it, but if you do some of the other bits of SnT you will also have to do some other stuff to take account of their effect.

 

[Ethan]

Just watched some of the Youtube stuff today. Here is a link to the same instructors cited above showing how to hit the driver:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thegolfevolution#p/u/15/JXuikUmHeEQ

Now maybe the average middle handicapper would find that easier than the conventional swing (although I rather doubt it), but it certainly illustrates that SnT puts you somewhere where hip drive (but not centre movement) and leg straightening are needed to avoid a smothery push. This is basically exactly what the first instructional articles said. If you go to the top with SnT, then you must do this to get back to a decent hitting position.

 

[coolhand]

I’ve ended up on this thread (amongst others about S&T) after a journey through a number of swing theories that started with Hunter Mahan’s instruction piece in last month’s Mag, that has taken me via Jim Hardy and Moe Norman to finish up with Sean Foley.
I now believe 3 things, all potentially controversial:
1. Large parts of S&T is in active use on tour, undoubtedly in Sean’s pupils but also elements exist in a lot of the one planners swings.
2. Whilst Sean has taken a lot out of Plummer and Bennett’s work, they in turn have based their theory on others work – what goes around comes around.
3. I’ve now found a combination of swing theories (Hardy’s one plane and S&T) that seem to give me a simple consistent swing that works for me, so I’m happy.