Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
7.30 tonight. Feature on the Saltman case and rough justice in golf.
Might be worth a watch
Might be worth a watch
Special Report on SSNews tonight.
- Thread starter Imurg
- Start date
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
Sky+ is already set.
algar5
Challenge Tour Pro
Same Here.
A
Alex1975
Guest
just started recording it, ugly swing the guy has. be interesting to see what they have to say.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Let us know whats hapnin................
Marko77
Q-School Graduate
At the end of the day re Saltman, nothing. Nothing they can say as he's yet to decide whether to appeal or not and won't go into details until he does decide.
Program mostly opened the debate on who should be making the decisions i.e. the players committee or a committee of non active players.
A
Alex1975
Guest
I thought it very interesting and thought provoking. I will be having a good read of my rule book so that I am confident of my actions in compatision.
Saltsman seems to have alot of making up to do on the Euro tour if the bulk of the players comments are anything to go by. I do hope he was in error and not trying to cheat but it does look like the latter.
Saltsman seems to have alot of making up to do on the Euro tour if the bulk of the players comments are anything to go by. I do hope he was in error and not trying to cheat but it does look like the latter.
bozza
Journeyman Pro
Norks! is this repeated? saw it advertised but didn't pay too much attention what channel it was and persumed it was on one of the sky sports 1,2,3,4 channels but when i couldn't find it i thought i must have got the day wrong and didn't realise it was actually on sky sports news.
Doh!
Doh!
chrisd
Major Champion
He obviously cheated and I have no sympathy for him, but, I wonder why his playing partners didnt pull him up on it early on so that Saltman could add the penalties and avoid the resulting problems.
I am not blaming his playing partners and there is no room for cheats but if they had pulled him and he was doing it deliberately he would have known that he had been rumbled and that may have been the end of it.
The Sky report, I thought, was hardly Panorama but did ask some pertinent questions such as, should he be judged by other players who may have more interest in banning him rather than non players who would be potentialy more impartial.
The report also bought into question other more daft areas of "inadvertent" cheating ie. the Mark Roe, Padraig Harrington, Brian Davies matters and questioned whether viewers should be allowed to phone in later and get player d/q'd - some interesting points for debate
Chris
I am not blaming his playing partners and there is no room for cheats but if they had pulled him and he was doing it deliberately he would have known that he had been rumbled and that may have been the end of it.
The Sky report, I thought, was hardly Panorama but did ask some pertinent questions such as, should he be judged by other players who may have more interest in banning him rather than non players who would be potentialy more impartial.
The report also bought into question other more daft areas of "inadvertent" cheating ie. the Mark Roe, Padraig Harrington, Brian Davies matters and questioned whether viewers should be allowed to phone in later and get player d/q'd - some interesting points for debate
Chris
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Who else can judge him. If you assault someone and there is two witnesses you get convicted. What possible reason could these, never heard of before guys, have to get Saltman into trouble. And why should they pull him up while they’re trying to play in a tournament them selves. It’s not hard to work out they wanted to be sure what they were seeing and the more Saltman done it, the more they must have come to the conclusion he was cheating rather than some mistake.
To hell with Saltman….lets give some support to the two guys who blew the whistle. I’ll bet they’ve had a few sleepless nights.
percy_layer
Challenge Tour Pro
Totally agree with this.
They were there trying to earn some money and the last thing they want is the distraction of keeping an eye on a fellow player and the stress of making sure they are right to report him. How much has their games been affected by this since August? Could potentially affect the rest of their career in my opinion.
chrisd
Major Champion
I certainly wont argue with your views guys, as I said I have absolutely no sympathy for him
Chris
Chris
Ethan
Money List Winner
The other two players are acting for the entire field in upholding the Rules. I bet it wasn't easy for them to call a fellow player, but if they were sure in what they saw, they were quite right to do so.
jammag
Challenge Tour Pro
I watched the report tonight and I thought fair enough hes banned for cheating for moving his ball no more than an inch a few times, Me personally I dont understand what advantage he got from that so if you can explain that to me would be handy.
However what I am thinking as well is people say these players upheld the rules but did they as surely they shouldve been calling the penalty from first time they see it? Or did everyone know he done this and it had been circling the tour? Or was they thinking once ok thats fair enough ok twice now hes done it I will mention it to others and keep an eye out.
But are they not breaking rules for not calling the penalty?
My thoughts on punishments is that there should be a committee for the pro tour that decide not current players. Only reason for this is that if you get on well with someone then how can you judge without taking into account your friendship?
I think its fine players pointing out saying I think there was a foul there for this and ruling there own game and then in the recording hut after this can be discussed with the officials with use of tv footage to back up most things or with the witness of the other players / caddys.
This then leaves the game that we play normally, when a playing partner may say that was a foul there then you can discuss in the clubhouse after before submitting a final scorecard and can get the appropiate ruling. Then if for example you get somebody marking there ball incorrectly this can be said in the clubhouse then other players in future competitions would look out for this same thing. Which in turn would probably stop the player trying to cheat there way.
However what I am thinking as well is people say these players upheld the rules but did they as surely they shouldve been calling the penalty from first time they see it? Or did everyone know he done this and it had been circling the tour? Or was they thinking once ok thats fair enough ok twice now hes done it I will mention it to others and keep an eye out.
But are they not breaking rules for not calling the penalty?
My thoughts on punishments is that there should be a committee for the pro tour that decide not current players. Only reason for this is that if you get on well with someone then how can you judge without taking into account your friendship?
I think its fine players pointing out saying I think there was a foul there for this and ruling there own game and then in the recording hut after this can be discussed with the officials with use of tv footage to back up most things or with the witness of the other players / caddys.
This then leaves the game that we play normally, when a playing partner may say that was a foul there then you can discuss in the clubhouse after before submitting a final scorecard and can get the appropiate ruling. Then if for example you get somebody marking there ball incorrectly this can be said in the clubhouse then other players in future competitions would look out for this same thing. Which in turn would probably stop the player trying to cheat there way.
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
I totally agree with the last few comments regarding the other players concerned.
Last drawn competition I had to pull one of the guys in our fourball, he had an air shot trying to get out of the trees on the 12th and didn't count it.
I asked him how many he was claiming twice and each time he omitted the air shot, I even asked him if he was sure. I was getting pretty chewed up about it and found it very distracting. Eventually confronted him outright and he then corrected the score saying something like "I missed it by so much it might as well have been a practice swing".
That was in a team Stableford comp, I can only imagine how much worse it must have been in a professional tournament!
Last drawn competition I had to pull one of the guys in our fourball, he had an air shot trying to get out of the trees on the 12th and didn't count it.
I asked him how many he was claiming twice and each time he omitted the air shot, I even asked him if he was sure. I was getting pretty chewed up about it and found it very distracting. Eventually confronted him outright and he then corrected the score saying something like "I missed it by so much it might as well have been a practice swing".
That was in a team Stableford comp, I can only imagine how much worse it must have been in a professional tournament!
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
Does it matter whether or not he got any advantage? The rules are there and you either abide by them or you break them. There's no such thing as breaking the rules a little bit IMO.
Evesdad
Tour Winner
In my view he is a professional and so should now how to mark his ball, yes it maybe only inches but we all manage it every weekend etc!
chrisd
Major Champion
The advantage would be both physical and mental - it was physically a shorter putt and mentally he would have that in his mind, even thought it was just fractions of am inch maybe
There are no rules that say a playing partner has to call the infringement at the time and they did the right thing in refusing to sign his card.
Chris
jammag
Challenge Tour Pro
I didnt mean that beacause it was a minor he shouldnt be banned I was trying to think where moving the ball no more than an inch would gain an advantage.
What annoys me more is Monty in the past when he dropped his ball about a yard away from where it landed after a delay in play and gained an advantage from it and never had a hearing just got told they wasnt happy by it?
I wasnt sure if they should be telling him as they play as they couldve said first time you didnt makr your ball properly there thats a penalty then he wouldve known not to do it again and nipped it in the bud early on. Just seems strange that the other 2 players got together to decide not to do it. Surely they couldnt tell each other during the game that he was doing it or did they both just spot this on there own accord.
Now in my opinion if he had a hearing and he pleaded guilty he should be banned from all competitive golf for 3 months and that be it. I dont see why he would get a frosty reception from other pros especially as when monty done it he then went onto be ryder cup captain. Should just be do ya time then come back and end of because everyone will be watching him like a hawk from now on.
What annoys me more is Monty in the past when he dropped his ball about a yard away from where it landed after a delay in play and gained an advantage from it and never had a hearing just got told they wasnt happy by it?
I wasnt sure if they should be telling him as they play as they couldve said first time you didnt makr your ball properly there thats a penalty then he wouldve known not to do it again and nipped it in the bud early on. Just seems strange that the other 2 players got together to decide not to do it. Surely they couldnt tell each other during the game that he was doing it or did they both just spot this on there own accord.
Now in my opinion if he had a hearing and he pleaded guilty he should be banned from all competitive golf for 3 months and that be it. I dont see why he would get a frosty reception from other pros especially as when monty done it he then went onto be ryder cup captain. Should just be do ya time then come back and end of because everyone will be watching him like a hawk from now on.
viscount17
Money List Winner
ball comes to rest behind a worm cast, spike mark, in a depression,
