Some golf rules are just daft - discuss

[duncan mackie]

The main point being that it is a small list. i.e. casual water, animal scrape, cart path etc

You could have maybe 10-20 exceptions where as now, each of these exceptions comes with 16 additional points stating what to do if a,b,c,d.

my point is that it's still fundamentally a small list but even a list of 1 requires rules regarding the application of the rules. the rules we have today are based on exactly the premise you put forward and one other key principle - that the application of the rules is written such that all the players can apply them equally, anywhere in the world.

it's almost a consequence of the precise concise nature of the rules that can require significant additional notes on how to apply them in every situation; if you even feel the need to read a 40 page document on the application of NPR....

 

[jamielaing]

my point is that it's still fundamentally a small list but even a list of 1 requires rules regarding the application of the rules. the rules we have today are based on exactly the premise you put forward and one other key principle - that the application of the rules is written such that all the players can apply them equally, anywhere in the world.

it's almost a consequence of the precise concise nature of the rules that can require significant additional notes on how to apply them in every situation; if you even feel the need to read a 40 page document on the application of NPR....

I agree. As i said all along. I want a simplified list. Not different. Simplify the rules.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I confess I am woolly on a number of rules, a little knowledge but not sure on a number of issues. I think I am right in saying some rules allow you to move your ball within 1 club length, others are two, others allow you to go back as far as you like in line with the point of entry. I may be wrong in thinking that all three are viable options. Anyway, my point is why not have just one option, that would simplify matters. JL may not agree with the example I have given, I don't speak for him, but the point backs up what we both think, I think.

 

[jamielaing]

I confess I am woolly on a number of rules, a little knowledge but not sure on a number of issues. I think I am right in saying some rules allow you to move your ball within 1 club length, others are two, others allow you to go back as far as you like in line with the point of entry. I may be wrong in thinking that all three are viable options. Anyway, my point is why not have just one option, that would simplify matters. JL may not agree with the example I have given, I don't speak for him, but the point backs up what we both think, I think.

Fully agree. If it was a standard 1 club length or go back to the original position (giving the player the option) for all penalties we are at least at the right starting point. Then reduce the exceptions to a simple list.

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree. As i said all along. I want a simplified list. Not different. Simplify the rules.

I'm not sure I understand what you are agreeing - once you move anywhere at all (just one exception is all it takes) from 'play the ball as it lies and the course as you find it' you require the complexity of the rules to ensure equity.

 

[Foxholer]

Fully agree. If it was a standard 1 club length or go back to the original position (giving the player the option) for all penalties we are at least at the right starting point. Then reduce the exceptions to a simple list.

But it IS relatively simple! If what you are doing involves a Penalty, then it's 2 Club lengths; if it's 'free', then it's 1 Club Length.

 

[duncan mackie]

But it IS relatively simple! If what you are doing involves a Penalty, then it's 2 Club lengths; if it's 'free', then it's 1 Club Length.

rofl....if that doesn't prove their point nothing will!

it's easier to consider what the rule is trying to do - ie it's simple if you don't complicate it.

where you are choosing to take a penalty drop it's giving you 2 CL as reasonable scope to avoid a situation, or as far back in line if you can't get round it with 2CL, or all the way back if neither of those work.

where you are being granted relief you get relief first (find nearest point of relief) after which you are generally permitted to drop the ball within 1 CL of that point. An obvious exception to that is 25-2, where you create the situation in the first place (embedded ball in closely mowed area) and here you are required to drop the ball as near as possible (no club lengths).

 

[Foxholer]

rofl....if that doesn't prove their point nothing will!

it's easier to consider what the rule is trying to do - ie it's simple if you don't complicate it.

where you are choosing to take a penalty drop it's giving you 2 CL as reasonable scope to avoid a situation, or as far back in line if you can't get round it with 2CL, or all the way back if neither of those work.

where you are being granted relief you get relief first (find nearest point of relief) after which you are generally permitted to drop the ball within 1 CL of that point. An obvious exception to that is 25-2, where you create the situation in the first place (embedded ball in closely mowed area) and here you are required to drop the ball as near as possible (no club lengths).

And you criticise me for adding complication! :rofl:

 

[MadAdey]

I don't think here are too may rules in golf, just people who do not understand how to apply them, or find out what section to get a ruling from.

A unique game game like golf where we have to referee our own game has to have rules/guidelines of what to do in every eventuality to ensure a level playing field. Problem you get is this creates one hell of a lot of rules that we need to understand.

regardin daft rules, I still do not see why you shouldn't b able to repair the green before putting. Just because moron has played in front off youand scuffed the green up, why should you be penalized when trying to putt. Another ones a repairing the edge of the hole when people have damaged it.

 

[duncan mackie]

regardin daft rules, I still do not see why you shouldn't b able to repair the green before putting. Just because moron has played in front off youand scuffed the green up, why should you be penalized when trying to putt. Another ones a repairing the edge of the hole when people have damaged it.

it was rumored that Seve managed to singlehandedly convince the ruling bodies not to take this further when the Tour ran a (short lived) trial.....

 

[Ethan]

Haven't read all the posts but in general I think the rules do a pretty good job in legislating for a wide range of complex situations in a reasonably clear manner. Not sure there is much to be learnt by medal from matchplay rules and vice versa. The medal and matchplay rules differ only in that one set defends the interests of the field and the other defends the interest of the opponent.

As far as divots go, very annoying for sure, but part of the game. It also avoids debates about what is a divot. Pretty much every inch of the fairway will have been hit by a club at one stage or another.

 

[drdel]

I'd also change the 'divot' rule on the basis that the Rules are there to stop a player gaining an unfair advantage/cheating to gain.

Since most divots will be 'through the green' allowing a player to drop a club's length no nearer the hole is hardly giving any significant advantage since the distance to the pin (or layup) still requires almost identical skills.

Since a divot is an area damaged in the course of play and not yet repaired why is it not GUR?

 

[MadAdey]

I'd also change the 'divot' rule on the basis that the Rules are there to stop a player gaining an unfair advantage/cheating to gain.

Since most divots will be 'through the green' allowing a player to drop a club's length no nearer the hole is hardly giving any significant advantage since the distance to the pin (or layup) still requires almost identical skills.

Since a divot is an area damaged in the course of play and not yet repaired why is it not GUR?

It has already been mentioned, how do you determine if it is a divot. People will be trying to get free drops for any marks on the ground if they do not like how their ball is sitting if you allow relief from divots.

 

[drdel]

^^^ So what ?

I can't see how allowing my PP to take a drop a club's length either side of the divot (indentation) is really giving him or any significant advantage. My PP still has exactly the same wind, distance, to same green terrain etc on which to land his shot.

Why is this (in reality) any different than relief from a sprinkler head - don't give me grief about fixed and immovable objects I'm simply talking about whether pragmatically my PP has any real advantage.

 

[MadAdey]

^^^ So what ?

I can't see how allowing my PP to take a drop a club's length either side of the divot (indentation) is really giving him or any significant advantage. My PP still has exactly the same wind, distance, to same green terrain etc on which to land his shot.

Why is this (in reality) any different than relief from a sprinkler head - don't give me grief about fixed and immovable objects I'm simply talking about whether pragmatically my PP has any real advantage.

So someone has got a bit of a tight lie on the fairway and after much searching finds what sort of looks like, might be, but probably isn't an old divot that is interfering with his shot. He takes a drop onto a nice fluffy area, gets a good lie now a then creams a 3w from it. So has he got a significant advantage or not?

I've played with people who when their ball goes into a bush or behind a tree will try their best to find signs of a burrowing animal to get themself a free drop. So what will change when they can change their lie on the fairway for a better one.

 

[Bobirdie]

I like to play the ball as it lies and i reckon relief from divots would get taken advantage of. Ive been in a few horrible divots right enough 2" deep.

 

[drdel]

^^^ I'll reply but don't want to get into a drawn out "to and fro".

Basically I play because I enjoy it - I want to beat my partner because, on-the-day I played the best golf not because my PP had bad luck by dropping in a divot because a previous player couldn't be bothered to repair the damage they'd caused to the course on one hole.

Like the majority golfers I'm not playing for major cash prizes and if that one shot is the difference so be it: I really couldn't give a tosh as the 'moral' victory is still mine.

Moreover, if my PP decides he needs to cheat and 'improve' his lie on a shot, that's down to his/her own ethics/standards which are obviously at odds with the first principle of golf - (self ruling) and it will merely lower my opinion of his character.

If you play with golfers who are constantly looking for the sneaky advantage no rule will prevent them 'finding' opportunities to cheat and I'd suggest you look to change PPs for a more enjoyable crowd.

I thought the rules were there to ensure golfers know what should happen in a given situation - no amount of rules will change the behaviour of golfers who are constantly on the lookout for a way around the problems they face. If the 'Rule Book' is going to set out to make players more honest its going to become huge.

 

[doublebogey7]

What I find interesting about this thread, is that one half wants the rules simplified the other half would introduce more exceptions to "play it as it lies" thus farther complicating the rules.

You could say then that the rule makers have it about right.

 

[pokerjoke]

Sorry but I agree that you can't have relief from a divot - it would be manipulated by players who would look to take relief from the smallest scratch on the fairway to get a better lie

The plugged ball and spike marks would be the rules I would change

Im all for getting relief from a divot.
Divots are also turned over by Birds.
If you hit a fairway why should you get punished.

You want the rule of spike marks changed.
Why?because you think its unfair if you hit one and your putts misses because it hit
the mark.
Is it not unfair when you've done exactly what your meant to do[hit the fairway]
you get punished.

 

[Face breaker]

A lot of the rules are just daft and far to complicated in some cases, especially to a newbie !...