Should we get rid of it?

[bobmac]

Par.
Of course we need to keep CSS and stroke index for match play purposes but does the sign on the tee box really need a par figure?
I played Camberley recently which had a par 4 over 500yds and I've played par 5s under 500

When you atand on a tee do you think 500yds, wow, a tough par 4 or woo hoo, and easy par 5?
The hole is 500yds long and it's par shouldn't change the way you play it.

Personally, if I can drive a hole, it's a par 3 in my mind. If I can reach it in 2 it's a par 4 an if I cant, it's a par 5.

As the amateur game is based on gross and net scores and not compared to the par of the course, why do we need it?

 

[Parmo]

Is it so bandits can get better stableford points?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's an Intersting question Bob. Does Par really matter on an individual hole? For medal play it's not that important but I'm not sure how s'ford would work?

Would it change the way you thought or played a hole? Maybe at first but after a few rounds you'd have a pretty good picture of the par of each hole(your classification maybe different to someone else's but in your head, you'd have a par for each hole) and would play them the same way as you would if you knew the par up front.

 

[Smiffy]

Personally, if I can drive a hole, it's a par 3 in my mind. If I can reach it in 2 it's a par 4 an if I cant, it's a par 5.

What if you four putt it?
Is it a par 6?

 

[Oddsocks]

While what bobs saying does have a element of sense behind it , IMO par will never go. There is so much hand up on heritage and tradition some of the oldies would have a heart attack if this was serious proposed.

 

[0]

While what bobs saying does have a element of sense behind it , IMO par will never go. There is so much hand up on heritage and tradition some of the oldies would have a heart attack if this was serious proposed.

However what's the point? Is there a valid and positive reason to propose a change? Is there a better solution? Or is it change for change sake?

Whilst it's an interesting question I think hawkeyems has hit the nail and PAR would just re-emerge as the norm.

 

[chrisd]

Par.
Of course we need to keep CSS and stroke index for match play purposes but does the sign on the tee box really need a par figure?
I played Camberley recently which had a par 4 over 500yds and I've played par 5s under 500

When you atand on a tee do you think 500yds, wow, a tough par 4 or woo hoo, and easy par 5?
The hole is 500yds long and it's par shouldn't change the way you play it.

Personally, if I can drive a hole, it's a par 3 in my mind. If I can reach it in 2 it's a par 4 an if I cant, it's a par 5.

As the amateur game is based on gross and net scores and not compared to the par of the course, why do we need it?

Trouble sleeping Bob?



Chris

 

[Mightymoose]

If it ain't broke...

 

[Imurg]

Get rid of par and you get rid of Stableford and everything becomes Medal play - not necessarily a bad thing. But Stableford was devised to give everyone a chance and having one bad hole doesn't ruin your card.
Par has no real meaning as it's the number of shots taken that counts not how many you're supposed to take.

 

[bobmac]

Of course it will never happen. I just see so many people who make a mess of a hole because of the par figure on the tee.
They see 485 yrd par 4 wind against and think it's a tough hole and try and force their drive. 10 minutes later it's a 7.
The next hole might be a 490yd par 5 down wind and they think woo hoo, easy hole and play it sensibly making no worse than a 5 or 6.

All I'm sayng is to play each hole on it's own merits and don't be influenced by what the par of the hole is.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Understand your thinking Bob, but in my mind it does serve a purpose. I think your point relates more to good course management rather than par. For example if I come across a long par 4 (480 - 500) yards I immediately think on the tee that I'll settle for a 5 and anything better is bonus and play it accordingly. Same for a shortish par 5 - a par is fine, but if I get a decent drive away and in play then I know that I can reach in two and therefore 4 (or even 3!) is achievable.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Understand your thinking Bob, but in my mind it does serve a purpose. I think your point relates more to good course management rather than par. For example if I come across a long par 4 (480 - 500) yards I immediately think on the tee that I'll settle for a 5 and anything better is bonus and play it accordingly. Same for a shortish par 5 - a par is fine, but if I get a decent drive away and in play then I know that I can reach in two and therefore 4 (or even 3!) is achievable.

I presume Bob was referring to the 5th at Camberley. Just an easy 4 for me in sweltering conditions. It made no difference to how I played the hole. Got a good drive away and so was in a position to go for it with a 5 wood and hit a decent one to the back edge. If the drive had found trouble I'd have looked to get back in play and leave around 15-160 in and try and make a five or hole the putt.

I never stand on any hole thinking play safe because I get a shot. I'm always thinking about making a gross par. Of course the shot becomes a safety net but it doesn't influence my plan from the tee

 

[bobmac]

I'm always thinking about making a gross par.

This is my point.
I always try and score the best I can at any hole irrespective of the par.
If I hit a good drive at a par 5, second just off the edge of the green, chip and 2 putt, I would be miffed. I wouldn't think "ah well, it was a par"

Likewise, if it's a long par 4 uphill into the wind and I cant reach in 2, then I will settle for a 5 and not get upset.

 

[G_Mulligan]

it makes sense and would no doubt relieve pressure but it also takes birdies and eagles out of the equation. Yes you lose shots chasing them as you said but also they are exciting and give you something to strive towards.

 

[Piece]

Par.
Of course we need to keep CSS and stroke index for match play purposes but does the sign on the tee box really need a par figure?
I played Camberley recently which had a par 4 over 500yds and I've played par 5s under 500

When you atand on a tee do you think 500yds, wow, a tough par 4 or woo hoo, and easy par 5?
The hole is 500yds long and it's par shouldn't change the way you play it.

Personally, if I can drive a hole, it's a par 3 in my mind. If I can reach it in 2 it's a par 4 an if I cant, it's a par 5.

As the amateur game is based on gross and net scores and not compared to the par of the course, why do we need it?

I think keeping par gives us amateurs a frame of reference for how we are doing. The par is an indicator of what we should be taking for that hole, if conditions are normal. Then after that you move into the area of course management and your expectation and limitation. Taking your examples, standing on the tee of a 500y par 4 should bring thoughts of what can be done with this hole: where is the danger, is it downwind, is there too much risk...then in summary, deciding whether 4 is a good score/par for the day, or is 5 actually good considering the factors mentioned.

Pros often talk about knowing when to attack and staying patient. Don't put pressure to make par all the time. Look at the bigger picture (which I guess is where Bob's thinking is) and the pressure expectation may lessen - I think this a good lesson for us all.