Should the Handicap system be revised?

[garyinderry]

I can't think of any club that I have had to produce a handicap cert. Even the ones that stated I would need it.


Really isn't that much of an issue in the north west. Maybe it's different elsewhere.

 

[DCB]

Leave well alone. It may not be the best system, but it is a system, so we have to get on with it.

Bring in various categories of handicap and you're looking at a cheats charter.

 

[ger147]

ESR doesn't apply unless -4 or better is scored. Handicap Committees have always - and still have even with ESR - had the power to deal with players performing like that.

As an improving player (I hope) trying to get his handicap down, it's frustrating that there are no ESR's in Scotland. I shot 4 under handicap in one comp last season and then 5 under handicap just 2 weeks later, but no additional ESR cut for me. Would have loved another shot chopped off at the time...

 

[Foxholer]

As an improving player (I hope) trying to get his handicap down, it's frustrating that there are no ESR's in Scotland. I shot 4 under handicap in one comp last season and then 5 under handicap just 2 weeks later, but no additional ESR cut for me. Would have loved another shot chopped off at the time...

The SGU's view on that was apparently that Club Handicap Secretaries are better placed to monitor such ESs! I suggest you hassle him/her!

 

[ger147]

The SGU's view on that was apparently that Club Handicap Secretaries are better placed to monitor such ESs! I suggest you hassle him/her!

If the handicap sec wins his next tie in the Club Singles comp, he gets me in the next round. So hopefully he gets through and I can administer a sound thrashing off my "bandit" handicap and it should soon come tumbling down

 

[DCB]

The SGU's view on that was apparently that Club Handicap Secretaries are better placed to monitor such ESs! I suggest you hassle him/her!

'cause he's obviously not doing his job properly Two scores like that should have at least made him have a look at your recent playing history. Two scores like that aren't a flash in the pan.

 

[Hobbit]

Nowhere have I advocated and said lower the handicap so how you read into the post its a "dumbing down" is beyond me - perhaps that's a thought already in your head !

If you read the text you will see that I said I'd been a member of my club for 20 years - I've played for over 50 years and belonged to others as work has took me to different locations ! My "usually get around in under 90" was a throw away conservative statement merely to give a context, but if you're a handicap snob that's fine by me, my score is generally just in double figures now as I've lost a bit of distance: and, at 70 I'm well versed in how to conduct myself thank you. Having a low handicap is certainly no indicator of good golfing behaviour as many posts on this Forum unfortunately demonstrate.

You mention your 30 year period, I'd respectively suggest that times are somewhat different. The pressures on many clubs to survive indicates to me that there is both a perception and a reality issue with how Golf is seen by the younger generation. My post was simply opening a debate and raising a question as to whether the Handicap system might be revised in the interests of giving wider access to the 'nomadic' and more casual player.

The fact that some contributors to the thread indicate that while many Clubs specify a minimum handicap for guest players but then do not then enforce it just goes to show the reality and stupidity of saying one thing and doing another. Either it is required or it isn't; otherwise its just daft marketing. One wonders how many courses have lost potential customers who have read a Golf Club's website with the associated 'minimum handicap' requirement only to then not bother visiting.

Apologies if you've taken my post personally, and having reread it I can understand why. Substitute the "you" for anyone coming into the game and wanting 'instant' access to the Muirfield's of the golfing world. And I didn't say you didn't know how to behave on the course, I said a h'cap cert gives the club sec/pro a yardstick to judge a visitor by. It may be a flawed measure in terms of golf etiquette but it isn't in terms of their ability to navigate around a course reasonably well.

The dumbing down is a reference to things like "ready golf" and suggestions of 6 hole comps etc. I don't agree with ready golf as all it does is mask a symptom, not cure it. Once upon a time it was 3.5 hr rounds, then 4 hr rounds and now people are talking of 4.5hr rounds as becoming the norm. Education is a better idea in IMO.

As for being a h'cap snob; not me. Many low handicappers are far too intense on the golf course. After nearly 50yrs of golf I prefer my game a little more relaxed.

And several clubs near me have, or are considering waiting lists. That certainly suggests that, locally, the economy and golf is on the up.

 

[ger147]

'cause he's obviously not doing his job properly Two scores like that should have at least made him have a look at your recent playing history. Two scores like that aren't a flash in the pan.

The day after the 5 shots under h/c (was a Saturday), I was 3 shots under h/c on the Sunday. Was a good weekend that weekend and a pretty good 2 weeks - 19 to 15 in a fortnight.

Patiently waiting for it to kick in again this season after 6 consecutive buffers but no cuts so far.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As an improving player (I hope) trying to get his handicap down, it's frustrating that there are no ESR's in Scotland. I shot 4 under handicap in one comp last season and then 5 under handicap just 2 weeks later, but no additional ESR cut for me. Would have loved another shot chopped off at the time...

That's where I as a HC sec would have stepped in and used a bit common sense and applied an extra HC reduction

 

[Bazep]

Just to add my 2p worth, I'd say leave well alone.

i think the barriers to playing are mostly around time and money. Less and less people have the time to spend on the golf course and the many many hours required of practice to really enjoy the game. The there's cost of everything....

 

[ger147]

That's where I as a HC sec would have stepped in and used a bit common sense and applied an extra HC reduction

I thought I might have been picked up in the annual review and mibbie got an extra 1 shot cut there, but nothing doing there either. But it'll come down in due course, and in the meantime I've got used to playing in my Sombrero

 

[Paul77]

If there's a barrier to people playing golf it's got nothing to do with the handicap system. As a returning golfer, I find it's clubs thinking they are too good for new members, and the general snobery surrounding the game, like it's only there for the upper tier of society. Hasn't changed since I was young, and I don't see it changing.

I spot their attitude change towards me though, when I drive my BMW into the car park. It's attrocious.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No - it is OK as it is

 

[delc]

The current CONGU handicapping system seems to be based on the premise that a player's ability only improves or declines very slowly. In real life a keen young golfer can improve by many strokes during the course of a summer vacation, and probably win most or all of the comps he or she enters, until the handicap catches up.

Conversely elderly golfers can decline in ability quicker than adding 0.1 to the handicap for each comp they play in. This has the consequence that nett scores tend to be not that good in senior comps and they become 'Reductions Only', which prevents handicaps from increasing. ESR's are a good idea for catching rapidly improving golfers, and I have no idea why the Scottish Golf Union hasn't adopted them!

I would certainly like to see the minimum number of returns per year increased to at least 6, to give more statistically significant handicaps.

 

[Face breaker]

Personally I think it should be changed to groups as in A/B/C/D with "A" being those that shoot on average PAR+10 so 70-80 then group "B" would be 80-90, group "C" 90-100 and finally group "D" would be 100-110 that way people/newbies would find it a lot less confusing and a whole heap easier to select playing partners of a similar calibre also I think it maybe easier to root out the "false handicap" brigade using this system, not sure how it would work out scoring wise if a group "A" player was to play a group "B" player maybe group "A" would give away a fixed 3/4/5 shots !...:thup:

 

[rosecott]

Conversely elderly golfers can decline in ability quicker than adding 0.1 to the handicap for each comp they play in. This has the consequence that nett scores tend to be not that good in senior comps and they become 'Reductions Only', which prevents handicaps from increasing.

Are you basing this on conjecture?

What, for instance, is the proportion of "Reductions Only" in Seniors competitions at your club? I could trawl through HDID but I'm sure you will have the answer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The current CONGU handicapping system seems to be based on the premise that a player's ability only improves or declines very slowly. In real life a keen young golfer can improve by many strokes during the course of a summer vacation, and probably win most or all of the comps he or she enters, until the handicap catches up.

Conversely elderly golfers can decline in ability quicker than adding 0.1 to the handicap for each comp they play in. This has the consequence that nett scores tend to be not that good in senior comps and they become 'Reductions Only', which prevents handicaps from increasing. ESR's are a good idea for catching rapidly improving golfers, and I have no idea why the Scottish Golf Union hasn't adopted them!

I would certainly like to see the minimum number of returns per year increased to at least 6, to give more statistically significant handicaps.

Our senior results are normally better than the main club comps - this year had 4 senior comps , the winning scores are

63,67,68,64

And can't remember a reductions only comp for theirs in the last 3 years I have been doin the comps

 

[drdel]

Perhaps we should junk the handicap system altogether as it seems it only permits a useless golfer to appear to win when in fact other competitors played better.

If I participate in football, rugby, archery, shooting, tennis, bowls, swimming, motor-racing, rallying, horse jumping etc, etc nobody changes the rules so I/we can win without being the best !

 

[HomerJSimpson]

No - it is OK as it is

Yep. Not perfect by a long way but functional

 

[Face breaker]

Yep. Not perfect by a long way but functional

So if by your own admission the handicap system ain't perfect then surely something should be done to sort it out properly after all the game of golf is suffering (mainly due to the expense but the overly complicated/anal rules don't help) and anything that may encourage new players to the game must surely be investigated, just my personal view you understand !...:thup: