should she be allowed back in the UK?

[Deleted member 15344]

I saw the "seemed." Did you not see the question mark and the end of "you know it was rushed?"

The Home Office doesn't have to check with the Bangladeshi Govt. Her parents, and their solicitor, haven't denied they are Bangladeshi. And, as I said, the Bangladeshi govt website makes it pretty clear. And the reason the previous 2 Bangladeshi IS supporters got the UK citizenship reinstated is they were over 21 when the UK tried to revoke their citizenship.

As for the Home Office will make mistakes again. I prefer to deal in facts, not suppositions, that support an argument.

You believe the UK govt has been embarrassed by their (supposed) haste and lack of due diligence. I don't. Although I do believe there is a possibility it may unravel due to a precedent already set.

You would have thought in such a high profile case that our own Home Office would make sure 100% on everything before acting - if they “believed” she was a Bangladesh Citizen then would you not think the best thing would be to be 100% of that fact before revoking UK Citizenship.

It’s unraveled already - the Home Office won’t be able to remove her UK Citizenship- they have made a complete mess of it

 

[spongebob59]

Guy on LBC made a valid point that if she did come back she'll be a target for all the right wing loonies.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Is she a threat to people in the UK going about their daily business?

Yes or No.

If Yes, jib her off.

If no, you need urgent medical attention.

 

[Hobbit]

You would have thought in such a high profile case that our own Home Office would make sure 100% on everything before acting - if they “believed” she was a Bangladesh Citizen then would you not think the best thing would be to be 100% of that fact before revoking UK Citizenship.

It’s unraveled already - the Home Office won’t be able to remove her UK Citizenship- they have made a complete mess of it

Phil, I've explained how someone acquires Bangladeshi citizenship by birth, twice, and I've just checked it again. That makes it 3 times, for the hard of hearing. I've also looked at Bangladesh's rules on dual citizenship - here in Spain you can't have both but you can with Bangladesh. How many times do I have to post a cold hard verifiable fact before you admit you are wrong? Research it rather than post an opinion.

Whether an international court will support the UK? Maybe it will. Would a human rights court support the UK? I'm not so sure. But the facts above remain. As Bangladeshi law currently stands she is a Bangladeshi citizen by birth.

I dare you, just for once in a thread, admit you got it wrong.

 

[Tashyboy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47312207#share-tools
Here you are, a bit of a read for those that would like to know where we,she, Bangladesh stands re the law.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, I've explained how someone acquires Bangladeshi citizenship by birth, twice, and I've just checked it again. That makes it 3 times, for the hard of hearing. I've also looked at Bangladesh's rules on dual citizenship - here in Spain you can't have both but you can with Bangladesh. How many times do I have to post a cold hard verifiable fact before you admit you are wrong? Research it rather than post an opinion.

Whether an international court will support the UK? Maybe it will. Would a human rights court support the UK? I'm not so sure. But the facts above remain. As Bangladeshi law currently stands she is a Bangladeshi citizen by birth.

I dare you, just for once in a thread, admit you got it wrong.

Um what is it you think I have got wrong ?

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isn’t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration.

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesn’t make me wrong

You don’t need to “explain” anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didn’t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.

 

[Kellfire]

I don't think the British government had to say she had Bangladeshi citizenship, it just has to show she could have it. They are right. Her baby was born in Syria yet it is classed as British due to her mother. She is British but could be Bangladeshi due to her parents. Very similar to the many Brits who are now deciding to obtain Irish passports despite never having been there. It's partly a theoretical issue.

Please, explain what you know about people obtaining Irish passports.

 

[SocketRocket]

Um what is it you think I have got wrong ?

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isn’t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration.

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesn’t make me wrong

You don’t need to “explain” anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didn’t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.

What is it about you, it appears you seem disappointed she may not return to the UK. You will of course deny this but I cant quite understand your motive, is it that you want to polish your shiney sanctimonious image or is it related to your seemingly hatred for the Government and our Countries institutions.

 

[SocketRocket]

Is she a threat to people in the UK going about their daily business?

Yes or No.

If Yes, jib her off.

If no, you need urgent medical attention.

Shes possibly a threat so best to jib her off to be on the safe side.

 

[Fish]

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isn’t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration

I’ll put it another way.

Why do you think the Home Office needed to check when it is clearly defined by the Bangladeshi government that if you have a Bangladeshi parent you have ‘automatic citizenship’ up until the age of 21.

It is not the case like many other countries that to obtain citizenship it is required that’s you apply for it and within that process it is either granted or refused, it’s automatic at birth, as such she indeed does have Bangladeshi citizenship!

 

[Slab]

Um what is it you think I have got wrong ?

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isn’t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration.

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesn’t make me wrong

You don’t need to “explain” anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didn’t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.

And how do you 'suppose' that conversation would've gone?

UK Gov Question; erm we're kinda looking to nip this in the bud and revoke any chance of her coming here, we kinda think she'll be a bit of a risk you see. Before we do this can I just check if its true what your public info says and she has dual nationality with you lads, as we all know we cant leave her stateless?

Bangladesh Gov put our call on hold for a chat; whether its true or not, if we say yes she has then we're probably stuffed as the last resort for her nationality. I'm not liking that option much, but since the UK were daft enough to ask & warn us before they revoke it themselves we can pretty much get out of this and either deny it straight off or revoke ours first before we even reply to them

Bangladesh Gov reply option A; Yeah thanks for holding we looked and she doesn't, sorry can't help
Bangladesh Gov reply option B; Sorry to have kept you. You know she does have the right to come here but you fellas had a good idea and it got us thinking too.... so we revoked it an hour ago, leaving you chaps as the sole country... and as you know you cant leave her stateless can you?




I think its naive to believe it would have gone any other way if an official approach had been made

 

[Dibby]

Maybe actually read what I said - “It seemed rushed



I don’t think any of that changes my point

Simple solution - Home Office to Bangladesh Government - “ can we Check that this girl is actually a Bangladesh Citizen “ . Nope it “appears” the Home Office have gone stumbling ahead without completing checking things and I believe it’s not the first time they have done something like this.

The Home Secretary stated he would remove her UK Citizenship- other people within the government and security services warned that it couldn’t be done easily - Home Office went and did it anyway

Do I believe the Home Office would make a mistake again - yep most certainly, and I expect they will continue to make mistakes , seems it’s just part and parcel of the current government

It’s seems from what the Bangladesh Government have said the Home Office clearly didn’t investigate enough or knew enough to make the decision they did and right now the embarrassment is squarely with the UK

Have you considered that it's not just our government that can get things wrong and maybe the Bangladeshi government has made the mistake this time?

Assuming 1 of her parents are Bangladesh born, it is clear cut she is a Bangladesh citizen. See the wording of the laws for yourself on the Bangladeshi government's website. The key points to read are sections 4 and 14, in particular note subsection 1A under point 14, as this one has thrown a lot of people, as they reach a conclusion after reading subsection 1.

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?id=242

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have you considered that it's not just our government that can get things wrong and maybe the Bangladeshi government has made the mistake this time?

Assuming 1 of her parents are Bangladesh born, it is clear cut she is a Bangladesh citizen. See the wording of the laws for yourself on the Bangladeshi government's website. The key points to read are sections 4 and 14, in particular note subsection 1A under point 14, as this one has thrown a lot of people, as they reach a conclusion after reading subsection 1.

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?id=242

As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I don’t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - the public are going to be against her , demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later it’s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying it’s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MP’s quit but that’s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either it’s all just a coincidence or it’s very clever but I think they didn’t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )

This is all just my opinion on the issue at the end of the day

 

[Fish]

I'm out, conspiracy theories now, you couldn't make it up......

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Wow, coincidentally played golf yesterday with a lawyer who apparently knew about a Bangladeshi citizenship bill! Case closed I reckon.

Now, just imagine if someone on here had a daughter who is a Lawyer, that may or may not be working for the Government at a high level, anyone got any ideas? Anyone? Hobbit, what about you fella? Any ideas.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I don’t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - they public are going to be against demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later it’s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying it’s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MP’s quit but that’s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either it’s all just a coincidence or it’s very clever but I think they didn’t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )

Do you really think the Home Office got the girl all over the media?

As far as I have seen it, Sky and others broke the story and Home Office then reacted to the lack of willingness of the girl to denounce ISIS and her involvement, and I think probably warned her of the consequences and then went ahead, no doubt on good legal advice from lawyers, and with no disrespect to the lawyers from Immigration and the HO, probably far more atuned to the legal nuances of this particular case, and revoked UK citizenship. I have no doubt they have acted on strong and correct legal advice and the situation regarding Bangladeshi nationality.

I think your stance on this being some sort of PR coup to take news of factory closures, party revolts and Brexit of the front pages says more about your point of view with the country and the way it's run. It has been a media golden goose in terms of a story that can run and run and provoke a reaction from the public so you don't think the press and Sky aren't going to take advantage and keep this going. I really think to suggest it has been as puppets of the HO is really stretching credibility and all the HO has done is publicly announce the withdrawal of citizenship.

 

[Tashyboy]

Please, explain what you know about people obtaining Irish passports.

😳😁😂

 

[Tashyboy]

Has anyone actually read that link that I put up, seriously. In the link it says that the British government screwed up in trying to expel two bangladeshis. They two people were over 21 and the government was told by the biggest courts in the world they were wrong and could not expel them. They even quoted the law ruling on the BBC link. Legal experts say that law now does not apply coz Missis Terrorist is under 21. In essence you cannot have it both ways and the British Government seem to be in the right. I stand corrected if I have read it wrong.

 

[Dibby]

As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I don’t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - the public are going to be against her , demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later it’s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying it’s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MP’s quit but that’s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either it’s all just a coincidence or it’s very clever but I think they didn’t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )

This is all just my opinion on the issue at the end of the day

Her father didn't even move to the UK until 2007, 8 years after she was born, so unlikely he was a UK citizen at the time of her birth. Her mother could have been, we will have to wait until that fact is revealed.

Have you seen the statement from the Bangladeshi minister? According to the BBC article, it mentions the issues as her having never visited Bangladesh and not applying for dual citizenship. There is no part in the Bangladeshi law that says she has to have visited, and the law explicitly states those under 21 don't need to register to be dual citizens.

But the ministry of foreign affairs said the government was "deeply concerned" she had been "erroneously identified" as a Bangladeshi national.

In a statement, it said Ms Begum had never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh and had never visited the country.

Given the above statements being wrong, is it possible that the Bangladeshis are the ones who have made a mistake and not the UK?
Our government does a lot wrong, but for some reason, it's common to take the narrative that foreign governments always do right and speak the truth, when in reality they have agendas and make mistakes just as much as our lot.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Her father didn't even move to the UK until 2007, 8 years after she was born, so unlikely he was a UK citizen at the time of her birth. Her mother could have been, we will have to wait until that fact is revealed.

Have you seen the statement from the Bangladeshi minister? According to the BBC article, it mentions the issues as her having never visited Bangladesh and not applying for dual citizenship. There is no part in the Bangladeshi law that says she has to have visited, and the law explicitly states those under 21 don't need to register to be dual citizens.



Given the above statements being wrong, is it possible that the Bangladeshis are the ones who have made a mistake and not the UK?
Our government does a lot wrong, but for some reason, it's common to take the narrative that foreign governments always do right and speak the truth, when in reality they have agendas and make mistakes just as much as our lot.

No doubt the Bangladesh Government could also be wrong or they have also acted rashly on emotions

For me the biggest issue is the lack of communication between the two governments - it’s all being played out in the media when it shouldn’t be.

This should all be going on in the background with none of us knowing anything until a final decision is made so there is no about turns.

The Home Office made a complete mess when dealing with Hamza ( 8 years was it ? ) - it just seems complete incompetence to play this out in the media.