should she be allowed back in the UK?

[oxymoron]

I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days don’t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. Social media has maybe fuelled that and given a lot of people a mouthpiece to spout off and create issues.

Religion imo isn’t a great thing BUT something they do seem to have is trying to ask people to show more compassion and caring of others - people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesn’t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness , yes it’s all words and at times the actions are harder and some people in many situations just won’t be able to forgive but there are many who aren’t directly affected by situations can maybe just take a step back and show a bit of heart.

I have no doubt people will call that “snowflake” etc etc but I do recall a saying

What sets us apart in a civilised country from the terrorists and dictators is out ability to show compassion and forgiveness - lets hope that doesn’t erode away

Sorry but i have to disagree here ( with the bold statement) , i would rather not see any one suffer and i definitely would like to see no crime to be punished in the first place . However if a crime is committed then so be it, a level of punishment must be applied to
the offender and it must be at a level appropriate for the offence committed .

Your second line about compassion and forgiveness , where was ISIS in this ? You can only respond with kindness so many times before it bites you in the arse, so sometimes its better to sink your teeth in first not always palatable but there you go .Its a slippery slope if you keep turning the other cheek and keep getting it slapped , you have to stand up for yourself and indeed your way of life\beliefs and such .

 

[nickjdavis]

thankfully her husband is dead!

Is he? I thought he'd surrendered to the Syrian authorities and been imprisoned, tortured etc....but was still alive.

 

[huds1475]

Your second line about compassion and forgiveness , where was ISIS in this ? You can only respond with kindness so many times before it bites you in the arse, so sometimes its better to sink your teeth in first not always palatable but there you go .Its a slippery slope if you keep turning the other cheek and keep getting it slapped , you have to stand up for yourself and indeed your way of life\beliefs and such .

They are committed to the killing of non-believers.
They believe dying for this cause gets them a free pass to the afterlife. It's not a good combination.

If people genuinely believe those two things then compassion is off the table.

These beliefs are a pretty unique set of circumstances, so comparison & analogy doesn't work.

That said, the law is the law, and should be respected as the framework by which we deal with this particular situation.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days don’t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion.
- people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesn’t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness

I think there may be some truth in what you say, however I would also suggest that it's the perception of "do as you please our State will carry you" that probably grates on most and leads to peoples initial reactions, and can you really blame them?

 

[USER1999]

Is he? I thought he'd surrendered to the Syrian authorities and been imprisoned, tortured etc....but was still alive.

She comes here, has kid, husband comes here as familly, and his human rights to familly life. Great, then there's two of them.

 

[Captainron]

I’ve read the whole thread now and reflected on it.

I don’t think that she should be let back in (my opinion) but if she did come back then she would have to be let back in (fact) under law.

She would no doubt be detained under terrorism laws and subject to a massive sensationalised trial which would further divide opinion. At the end of which she will be found guilty I am sure and have to serve time. Add into this having a child while in custody and things just get overly messy. There is no simple solution here and everything will need to be done according to the law in Britain.

Our opinion on the matter has zero bearing on what will actually happen but it’s good to have a discussion about it all.

I would imagine that there would be some fairly vitriolic protesting done should she make her way back to Britain. Both extremes of the argument are never averse to a good old gathering and march

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Both extremes of the argument are never averse to a good old gathering and march

At least the weather is good for that at the moment!!

 

[Old Skier]

I have no doubt if this was a 15 year old white girl who left to be with someone from say the IRA but then wanted to return the reaction would be different

You need doubt because my reaction would be the same.

PS: She can have her citizenship removed if it is proven that she is a security risk to the state. Even the retired head of the governments deradicalization programme stated that listening to her interview, and obviously it was just a snap shot, feels that in her present state she is not ready to give up her ISIS beliefs.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days don’t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. Social media has maybe fuelled that and given a lot of people a mouthpiece to spout off and create issues.

Religion imo isn’t a great thing BUT something they do seem to have is trying to ask people to show more compassion and caring of others - people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesn’t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness , yes it’s all words and at times the actions are harder and some people in many situations just won’t be able to forgive but there are many who aren’t directly affected by situations can maybe just take a step back and show a bit of heart.

I have no doubt people will call that “snowflake” etc etc but I do recall a saying

What sets us apart in a civilised country from the terrorists and dictators is out ability to show compassion and forgiveness - lets hope that doesn’t erode away

Virtually every war/conflict since time began has been because of religious divide, now you quote religion to help your point!

Countries, including ourselves have had to stand up to evil time and time again, it’s not a new thing because of social media.

Look at the Arab world and their efforts to help stamp out ISIS, nobody has suggested peace talks, do you ever ask why? Because they were not interested, simple, they have one aim, the eradication of every non-believer and those that side with the non-believers.

As you like soundbites, here’s another one.

“Walk softly and carry a big stick and you will go far”

 

[bluewolf]

“Walk softly and carry a big stick and you will go far”

I've seen you hit the big stick mate.. You weren't walking that far to find the ball..

 

[drdel]

How would your opinions change were "she" a "he" and childlesss?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've seen you hit the big stick mate.. You weren't walking that far to find the ball..

That's brutal. Funny but brutal.

The sad part is I've played with Paul and he hits it a good way past me . I'll not bother with the weight of a big stck on my walk then, pointless.

 

[bluewolf]

That's brutal. Funny but brutal.

The sad part is I've played with Paul and he hits it a good way past me . I'll not bother with the weight of a big stck on my walk then, pointless.

To be fair, Paul knocks it a decent way, but the set up was too perfect to miss...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

How would your opinions change were "she" a "he" and childlesss?

It is always good to do that. See a person in a suit, put them in a shellsuit with a fag hanging out of their mouths. Reverse that etc. It is interesting to do as we do see people in a certain way and we need to be more dispassionate.

 

[GreiginFife]

Virtually every war/conflict since time began has been because of religious divide, now you quote religion to help your point!

Countries, including ourselves have had to stand up to evil time and time again, it’s not a new thing because of social media.

Look at the Arab world and their efforts to help stamp out ISIS, nobody has suggested peace talks, do you ever ask why? Because they were not interested, simple, they have one aim, the eradication of every non-believer and those that side with the non-believers.

As you like soundbites, here’s another one.

“Walk softly and carry a big stick and you will go far”

I agree on most of this except the part social media plays, IMO it can't be underestimated.
In wars gone past, propaganda was physical media or broadcast on medium that had limited reach (few people had TVs and radio has multiple stations). Social media allows the faster propagation of information across the world, is wider accessed and "viral" (in the truest sense of the word) and influences people of which the like TV and radio never could (think about the rise of "influencers" on SM platforms).

So I do think social media as a mouthpiece is significant today.
Civilised people should always stand up to evil in all its guises (and that's not a religious standpoint).

 

[Sweep]

the Blob was referring to your posts which make it hard to read , just a block of words with question marks - and I do believe it was you that took issue with me and with the same tone of post you use in the Brexit “ I’m right your wrong” kind of way
I think you are just admitting here that you just haven’t really read my posts because they are simply not what you want to hear. And let’s get this clear. You are no position to lecture me on “I’m right, you are wrong” kind of posting. Others have posted on the irony of this claim. If you don’t like the way I post I suggest you look at yourself first. And please stop with the fake offence taking. Were you not in the military? And you tell me you are bothered by a few hurty words?

I know what the original question was so I’m not sure why you keep repeating it , and many people have mentioned what she is lawfully allowed to do. And she we punish her child for her actions ?
I keep repeating it because you seem to have forgotten that this was whether she should be allowed back in or not. It wasn’t about some rambling opinion about legal processes you had to come up with to back up your argument.
I have never at any point suggested we should punish the child. Neither has anyone else, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make there.

She can be charged and tried without her being there
Indeed. But you said charged, tried and punished. How will she be punished?

Well that all depends on the mother and if she can care for her child
Are you not in the least concerned the child will be brought up radicalised by his or her mothers beliefs? You seem pretty sure that this woman was radicalised at 15 so it must be pretty easy to radicalise from birth.

She is still young ,she has been radicalised,

How do you know? It’s rather a sweeping assumption. Was everyone who fought for ISIS radicalised? Even the BBC said today that the most ardent supporters left months ago and that she must be fairly hardcore to still be there.

I was judging her solely and her situation as opposed to ISIS as a whole - people were suggesting she has her British Nationality removed
You said others had done worse and not had demands for their citizenship to be revoked. I was pointing out that they had and her situation was not unique.

I have no doubt if this was a 15 year old white girl who left to be with someone from say the IRA but then wanted to return the reaction would be different

I disagree, except thankfully the IRA were nothing like as prevalent as ISIS. They did not control and lawlessly govern thousands of square miles of territory. Most who were captured were caught in NI, so not comparable to this case.
You mention skin colour. This is nothing to do with skin colour. It’s not acceptable to label everyone who disagrees with your opinion as racist. It’s insulting, it’s factually incorrect and it legitimatises real racism. You should apologise.

Maybe we as a nation are becoming less compassionate and caring
Are you surprised when faced with an enemy such as this? How compassionate and caring were we towards the nazi’s? I seem to recall we hanged them. What do you think life would have been like if ISIS had won? What do you think life WAS like for non Muslims living under their rule? How much compassion did they ever show to anyone? How do you think the families of those innocent aid workers who were beheaded are feeling now? They have to live with the horror and grief everyday for the rest of their lives. Can you imagine for just one moment what life is like for them? And all because of this woman and her ilk.
I get that we are better than them but there had to be consequences for people who chose to support such evil. She made her choice. Thankfully it was the wrong one. She should count herself lucky she did not perish in a bombing like her friend did. She made that choice to go there.
We should have the choice who lives amongst us and if that’s unlawful then the law is wrong. She seemed to like the idea of a life in Syria so for me she can have it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree on most of this except the part social media plays, IMO it can't be underestimated.
In wars gone past, propaganda was physical media or broadcast on medium that had limited reach (few people had TVs and radio has multiple stations). Social media allows the faster propagation of information across the world, is wider accessed and "viral" (in the truest sense of the word) and influences people of which the like TV and radio never could (think about the rise of "influencers" on SM platforms).

So I do think social media as a mouthpiece is significant today.
Civilised people should always stand up to evil in all its guises (and that's not a religious standpoint).

Social media plays a part, but it’s not led to anything new when facing evil, evil has always been confronted, social media as you say has just speeded the information up.

 

[GreiginFife]

Social media plays a part, but it’s not led to anything new when facing evil, evil has always been confronted, social media as you say has just speeded the information up.

Agreed but the faster the spread the bigger the issue in my experience.
But on the whole, agreed.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

We could just leave it to the message board posters on the Daily Mail to decide. That would be fair and impartial …....

 

[4LEX]

Let her back in. On the proviso Prince Philip picks her up and drives her home. It'll be cleaner than the Diana job in Paris, no worries!