Should Muirfield host the Open?

[FairwayDodger]

No because it was mens only. Still doesnt affect the argument. Just because mens only was first doesnt clear any blame off ladies only clubs. Its either wrong by both or not wrong at all.

The "well they started it attitude" is a joke tbh.

To bleat on about the existence of women only clubs is pure whataboutery and changes nothing in this debate. My attempt at getting you to take a step back and consider WHY the women's clubs started was clearly a total waste of time. Lets move on, shall we?

I personally don't care if any private club discriminates on the basis of gender, although I think it's pretty sad nowadays (both male-only and female-only). The debate, as always, has split though. The question was should such clubs host the Open; I believe not but am not about to chain myself to the gates at the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Can I just say that all the references to 'the PC brigade' makes a lot of people look a bit kind of 'Daily Mail'.

I hope I live in a society where excluding someone from being a member of a club for no other reason other than the fact they have breasts and a vagina instead of a penis is not seen as Political Correctness gone mad, but the actions of a mature inclusive and progressive society. But may be that is just me......

 

[Stuey01]

Surely this analogy would only work if there were other countries that ONLY allowed women to vote.

And you also had a completely free choice about whether or not you wanted to live in either country, or a country that allowed both sexes the right to vote.

Completely different issue with the one being discussed IMHO.

It was a deliberately facetious comparison to highlight the stupidity of an argument that others are doing it therefore it must be ok.

 

[Foxholer]

Clubs that discriminate on gender are outdated and should be phased out. Certainly should not be rewarded with getting to host golfs flagship event.

Explain how having 'Ladies Tees' (something a near neighbour Luffness New does not have, though they have Ladies Par/SIs) is not discriminatory.

Why can't I play in the Ladies Roll-up?

Lots of discriminatory practices go on anyway.

And I find the need for 1 particular religious group to have to start their own clubs because they were black-balled from 'normal' ones rather more obscene - but that's just me!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Why can you handle woman not wanting to train in a gym with men, but not men wanting to join a golf club without woman?

Equality has to be a two way street

For the record I am more than happy to golf and train in mixed environments.

So am I but I can understand why some women are not. I'm not going to spell it out because I couldn't take the flaming I'd get in response. Think about it.

 

[Birchy]

Can I just say that all the references to 'the PC brigade' makes a lot of people look a bit kind of 'Daily Mail'.

I hope I live in a society where excluding someone from being a member of a club for no other reason other than the fact they have breasts and a vagina instead of a penis is not seen as Political Correctness gone mad, but the actions of a mature inclusive and progressive society. But may be that is just me......

Theres so many other reasons people are discriminated against in golf which probably affect many more people imo than this one but theres not as much of a story as "Women not allowed" is there?

The people jumping on the back of this story are clearly a bit "the sun" then arent they? I.E looking for a story where there isnt one and sensationalising everything.

 

[jp5]

In my opinion there is a duty among the governing bodies to move the game forward. Holding the Open at a club which would not welcome half the population as members in my mind does not send out the right image.

 

[Birchy]

In my opinion there is a duty among the governing bodies to move the game forward. Holding the Open at a club which would not welcome half the population as members in my mind does not send out the right image.

Fact is it probably welcomes even less than half the population as members. Do you think any man off the street could walk into Muirfield and sign up as a member?

Shall we just play the open at a municipal instead? :rofl:

 

[Bucktaylor64]

Women can play the course. Just cant be members.

Just typical of this day and age. Does it really matter that much?

PC brigade all over this like everything nowdays. BORING!

Theres nothing PC about equality!

women play the game! Some play it very well!

what we have is old fashioned sexism which doesn't belong in 2013.

 

[Foxholer]

I couldn't take the flaming I'd get in response. Think about it.

Wouldn't get any from me. I can totally understand and accept their reluctance.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Fact is it probably welcomes even less than half the population as members. Do you think any man off the street could walk into Muirfield and sign up as a member?

Shall we just play the open at a municipal instead? :rofl:

You mean like St. Andrews ?

 

[Bucktaylor64]

Can I just say that all the references to 'the PC brigade' makes a lot of people look a bit kind of 'Daily Mail'.

I hope I live in a society where excluding someone from being a member of a club for no other reason other than the fact they have breasts and a vagina instead of a penis is not seen as Political Correctness gone mad, but the actions of a mature inclusive and progressive society. But may be that is just me......

Well said! PC is often a term used lazily by those who refuse to accept that their sexism and bigotry is out of date and has no place in a modern and fair society!

 

[cookelad]

My attempt at getting you to take a step back and consider WHY the women's clubs started was clearly a total waste of time. Lets move on, shall we?

FWIW I agree completely, luckily the gender biasing has led to some good-to-great golf courses being developed (Sunningdale/Formby Ladies to name a couple) it's just a shame these courses 'had' to come into existence so that a group of people banished from the main courses in the area could get a game.

 

[stevie_r]

It's a private members club it has a right to choose who it wants as members.

Is its status as the foremost golf tournament in the world undermined by having clubs on the rota who only accept male members? No

Should male only member clubs be removed from the rota? No

Does the fact that the Open is being played at a male only member club in anyway harm the game of golf? No

Will young girls who are considering taking up the game be put off by a club hosting the Open excluding females from its membership? No, I really do doubt it.

Women can play there, we all know that; the press however will be loath to mention that fact.

It becomes a story every so often because someone has column inches to fill or Adrian Durham is having a quiet day on his show on Talksport. This in turn feeds down to those who fancy a break from crocheting their own sandals.

It's a non story.

 

[stevie_r]

You mean like St. Andrews ?

or Carnoustie?

 

[Stuey01]

Explain how having 'Ladies Tees' (something a near neighbour Luffness New does not have, though they have Ladies Par/SIs) is not discriminatory.

Why can't I play in the Ladies Roll-up?

Lots of discriminatory practices go on anyway.

And I find the need for 1 particular religious group to have to start their own clubs because they were black-balled from 'normal' ones rather more obscene - but that's just me!

To borrow a great term from FairwayDodger, sheer whatabouttery.
Its just a diversionary debating tactic... There are other wrong things so this wrong is less wrong school of argument.

I don't know to what specifically you are referring in your last paragraph, or how it is relevant in any way.

 

[Birchy]

You mean like St. Andrews ?

Cant be there though because i cant be a member. Thats not fair.

 

[Birchy]

It's a private members club it has a right to choose who it wants as members.

Is its status as the foremost golf tournament in the world undermined by having clubs on the rota who only accept male members? No

Should male only member clubs be removed from the rota? No

Does the fact that the Open is being played at a male only member club in anyway harm the game of golf? No

Will young girls who are considering taking up the game be put off by a club hosting the Open excluding females from its membership? No, I really do doubt it.

Women can play there, we all know that; the press however will be loath to mention that fact.

It becomes a story every so often because someone has column inches to fill or Adrian Durham is having a quiet day on his show on Talksport. This in turn feeds down to those who fancy a break from crocheting their own sandals.

It's a non story.

Finally :thup:

 

[Birchy]

Well said! PC is often a term used lazily by those who refuse to accept that their sexism and bigotry is out of date and has no place in a modern and fair society!

No its used by people who can form their own opinion by looking at the situation and all the facts rather than just the ones that suit the article in the paper or on radio stations etc etc.

 

[Bucktaylor64]

No its used by people who can form their own opinion by looking at the situation and all the facts rather than just the ones that suit the article in the paper or on radio stations etc etc.

No it's used often by people like I've heard in certain clubs whose members hate us riff raff playing their courses and believe wifey should be at home making the tea!