SFA

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone spot the story that the SFA have done a complete about face and would not stand in the way of The Ugly Sisters moving to England.

If you take Celtic away from the present league there are only a handful of points between the top six teams, now that sort of competition would bring the fans back.

 

[Val]

Anyone spot the story that the SFA have done a complete about face and would not stand in the way of The Ugly Sisters moving to England.

If you take Celtic away from the present league there are only a handful of points between the top six teams, now that sort of competition would bring the fans back.

I agree, the biggest issue is would it bring enough sponsorship to make clubs more wealthy than they are now?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I have always believed that if you do not make money from your basic product [in this case fans paying to watch thier team play football, on the terrace or on the telly] you will be on the slippery slope.
One reason why so many golf courses went bust.

 

[MegaSteve]

You can keep 'em as far as I am concerned...

 

[stevie_r]

I don't see how the SFA could do anything in any case, resign your membership of an organisation and it no longer holds sway over you. Of more importance is a new controlling body accepting you, in this case obviously the FA and EPL - who won't.

 

[user2009]

It would be bad news for Scottish football, I wonder how many smaller clubs would struggle, I mean really struggle without the swelled gates and increasd sponsorship that the big 2 bring. The league is about on par with English League 2 without them anyway, not much of an attraction without the Old Firm.

 

[user2009]

I have always believed that if you do not make money from your basic product [in this case fans paying to watch thier team play football, on the terrace or on the telly] you will be on the slippery slope.
One reason why so many golf courses went bust.

Totally agree, take my club, Darlington FC. 3 Administrations in 10 yrs, a conveyor belt of crooked/incompetent chairmen, mismanagement, overspending etc and we go from the brink of getting into League 1 with no debts and a 20k all seater stadium to playing in the Northern League (9th Tier) under a new name, no ground (share 8 miles out of town), new players and totally new board.

The only good thing is it feels like the demons have been purged, the club is owned by the fans and run by the fans, starting from scratch, now living within our means and getting 1500 gates (rest of the league struggles for 150).

The really frustrating thing is that some clubs in our league are being bankrolled and have budgets akin to 2 or 3 levels above, we're currently on course to score 115 points and still finish 2nd and miss promotion, WTF?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It would be bad news for Scottish football, I wonder how many smaller clubs would struggle, I mean really struggle without the swelled gates and increasd sponsorship that the big 2 bring. The league is about on par with English League 2 without them anyway, not much of an attraction without the Old Firm.

Not true. Supporters of Scottish clubs are the same as those anywhere - they will go and support their team - regardless. I think you'll find that outside of Rangers or Celtic supporters a possibility of neither Rangers nor Celtic being in the league does not bring supporters of scottish clubs to their knees in despair, pleading for them to stay. To the contrary - you might find a large number jumping for joy. Once and for all removing from Scottish football the shame that is the bigotry associated with both of these clubs (who would want it though). Relieve Scottish football of the persistent posturing and threatening of these two clubs with their 'do as we want or we leave Scottish football'. Good riddance a lot of folk will say.

 

[thecraw]

Sooner the better, cheerio.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Well said Hogan.
The Scots fans want a 16 team league but that is only possible with the old firm out of the picture.
Could be a brave new world.

 

[user2009]

Not true. Supporters of Scottish clubs are the same as those anywhere - they will go and support their team - regardless. I think you'll find that outside of Rangers or Celtic supporters a possibility of neither Rangers nor Celtic being in the league does not bring supporters of scottish clubs to their knees in despair, pleading for them to stay. To the contrary - you might find a large number jumping for joy. Once and for all removing from Scottish football the shame that is the bigotry associated with both of these clubs (who would want it though). Relieve Scottish football of the persistent posturing and threatening of these two clubs with their 'do as we want or we leave Scottish football'. Good riddance a lot of folk will say.

I meant crowds swelled with Rangers and Celtic fans visiting the smaller clubs (I know Rangers are D3 now but under normal circumstances I mean) No doubt fans will still support their team but there will be reduced sponsorship and TV revenue, the SPL will carry on regardless but money going around would be less and it would be tougher for a lot of teams in it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Many Scottish football fans do not attend SPL matches because the league is a foregone conclusion before the season starts.
Who knows how many may start again once thier club has a realistic chance of winning the league and playing in Europe.
You only have to look at the EPL Championship league to see what keen competition does to increase the number of fans attending matches.

 

[user2009]

Many Scottish football fans do not attend SPL matches because the league is a foregone conclusion before the season starts.
Who knows how many may start again once thier club has a realistic chance of winning the league and playing in Europe.
You only have to look at the EPL Championship league to see what keen competition does to increase the number of fans attending matches.

You may be right, it's hard to guess what might happen, one team that's doing great seem to be Inverness, a town of 60k people getting 3 and 4000 fans is fantastic. You have to question the quality though (not criticising, just comparing) when Richie Foran is one of their key players, he was a decent turn at Darlo a couple of years back (had 2 spells) but that was in FL2.

If it does happen I hope fans do come back in their droves but looking at the decline in crowds across the English leagues I doubt it.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Hard to be sure what the effect of Scottish football would be; lots of potential for unexpected stuff. For example, I'm a Rangers fan but I go to watch Hibs more often (since I now live near Easter Road). However, I have no real affinity for Hibs. Maybe with Rangers in a different league I might start to actually follow Hibs as well. With gers in div 3 that's already happening to a small extent since there are no games when I'm against them.

However the Scottish game would definitely diminish in international terms, less sponsorship etc. apparently the spl already dropped from 15 to 24 in international reckoning just because rangers aren't there any more so would probably drop off a cliff without Celtic as well.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hard to be sure what the effect of Scottish football would be; lots of potential for unexpected stuff. For example, I'm a Rangers fan but I go to watch Hibs more often (since I now live near Easter Road). However, I have no real affinity for Hibs. Maybe with Rangers in a different league I might start to actually follow Hibs as well. With gers in div 3 that's already happening to a small extent since there are no games when I'm against them.

However the Scottish game would definitely diminish in international terms, less sponsorship etc. apparently the spl already dropped from 15 to 24 in international reckoning just because rangers aren't there any more so would probably drop off a cliff without Celtic as well.

Thing is - they want to leave Scotland. If they find a home willing to accept them then they will go and Scottish football will have to continue and thrive without them come what may. Maybe Celtic and Rangers would set up 'feeder' clubs in Scotland that would attract their support. Would that make a difference? Would they do it for the good of Scottish football even were it deemed a good thing? Who knows. But the very fact that they would be happy to abandon Scottish football given half a chance is hardly likely to endear them to us non-OF supporters whilst they are still here.

 

[stevie_r]

Thing is - they want to leave Scotland. If they find a home willing to accept them then they will go and Scottish football will have to continue and thrive without them come what may. Maybe Celtic and Rangers would set up 'feeder' clubs in Scotland that would attract their support. Would that make a difference? Would they do it for the good of Scottish football even were it deemed a good thing? Who knows. But the very fact that they would be happy to abandon Scottish football given half a chance is hardly likely to endear them to us non-OF supporters whilst they are still here.

Why would the Old Firm set up feeder clubs? They would wish to retain their support for themselves. I believe the intention of Rangers and Celtic would be to continue in their current stadia - not to necessarily relocate to England - just compete in the English set up.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why would the Old Firm set up feeder clubs? They would wish to retain their support for themselves. I believe the intention of Rangers and Celtic would be to continue in their current stadia - not to necessarily relocate to England - just compete in the English set up.

They might want to set up feeder clubs to play in the Scottish Leagues as this would demonstrate both, that they aren't totally abandoning Scottish Football, and that their presence in albeit a somewhat different guise would provide a level of support to scottish clubs. :mmm:

 

[FairwayDodger]

Thing is - they want to leave Scotland. If they find a home willing to accept them then they will go and Scottish football will have to continue and thrive without them come what may. Maybe Celtic and Rangers would set up 'feeder' clubs in Scotland that would attract their support. Would that make a difference? Would they do it for the good of Scottish football even were it deemed a good thing? Who knows. But the very fact that they would be happy to abandon Scottish football given half a chance is hardly likely to endear them to us non-OF supporters whilst they are still here.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. If the spl allowed them to compete at European level I think they'd be quite happy. Personally, I'd rather see them stay in Scotland but, as things stand, they are stuck in terminal decline along win the rest of the league. Some years they can overachieve and buck the trend as Celtic are doing this year but its getting harder to do that.

compared to that the glamour of the epl is quite attractive. From a rangers perspective this would be the best time to do it since they'd lose nothing by starting at the bottom in England. Of course there's no indication they'd be welcomed down there so it's a bit of an academic discussion.

I think it's been made quite clear what non-of fans think of them over the last year so concerns about alienating them are probably a bit moot.

 

[stevie_r]

They might want to set up feeder clubs to play in the Scottish Leagues as this would demonstrate both, that they aren't totally abandoning Scottish Football, and that their presence in albeit a somewhat different guise would provide a level of support to scottish clubs. :mmm:

It's a tricky one, given obviously that there is currently no pyramid system in Scotland, it's a rare occurrence in the SFL for a slot to become available for a new side.

The other issue that needs addressing by the governing bodies in Scotland is the lack of a reserve league at the highest level. Once you are too old for the U19s, but not quite good enough for the first team, unless you go out on loan you ain't playing any football.

 

[user2009]

On the subject of the OF getting a start in England, Guilford Park, a Northern league team based in Carlisle have changed their name to Celtic Nation this season and despite averaging 35 (yes 35 fans) last season are spending ridiculous amounts of money on players far too good for that level (eg Adam Boyd, ex Hartlepool player reportedly on £600+ per week). All seems a bit suspicious to me.