Serena Williams - Disgraceful

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ger147 said:
He takes action when he deems it is necessary and does so regardless of whether the player is male or female.

So I'm not sure what point you're tying to make.
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The link above does far better than I ever could.
 
Papas1982 said:
For me the discussion about the umpire is a smoke screen. As has been shown, he has penalised male players. So sexism isn’t the reason for his actions.

Any ref/umpire may be inconsistent, but the rules aren’t. If you break them which she (her team) did. The you can’t complain about the consequences.
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That’s fine mate, it’s a discussion and healthy debate, we see things differently.
 
pauldj42 said:
The link above does far better than I ever could.
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Not sure what point you think it proves, but it adds absolutely NOTHING to any argument that the umpire did anything other than apply the rules as he should do and the penalties he handed out were spot on.
 
ger147 said:
Not sure what point you think it proves, but it adds absolutely NOTHING to any argument that the umpire did anything other than apply the rules as he should do and the penalties he handed out were spot on.
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I’m not trying to prove anything, I just don’t believe the Umpire is “clean” in all this, as in the article he’s handled these situations differently in the past.
When she gets the first warning, it’s difficult to hear properly but he seems to accept she didn’t see the hand signals and she thanks him.
He, like her, could of handled the situation better imo, the WTA and USLTA coming out and supporting her says a lot for me, if it was so clear cut I don’t think they would of.
 
pauldj42 said:
That’s fine mate, it’s a discussion and healthy debate, we see things differently.
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I accept she can feel hard done by, a bit like getting done for doing 75 on the motorway when you know full well loads get away with doing 100.... But at the same time, if you break a rule then you have to accept your consequences irrespective of what’s happened to others in the past.

Having read the link, I’m not sure the point the writer is making. It’s obviously written by a fan as they start off by building up her character refereeing her child’s birth etc, which has no relevance to the points being Discussed.

From what I can see, the main point is that it’s all his fault for having the audacity to charge her with coaching, but for me the responsibility is with the player. To use a footballing analogy, It’s a bit like a player complaining they get sent off for taking their shirt off after scoring a goal when on a yellow. Or hacking a player down after they were wrongly yellow carded in the first half. The player has to manage their game.

Once she had the code violation for coaching. Whether she agrees or not. She must know that a second violation will cost her a a point and a third would result in a game. Did all the men that apparently abused him, do so after one or two previous violations?
 
pauldj42 said:
I’m not trying to prove anything, I just don’t believe the Umpire is “clean” in all this, as in the article he’s handled these situations differently in the past.
When she gets the first warning, it’s difficult to hear properly but he seems to accept she didn’t see the hand signals and she thanks him.
He, like her, could of handled the situation better imo, the WTA and USLTA coming out and supporting her says a lot for me, if it was so clear cut I don’t think they would of.
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The umpire didn't cause the problem, Serena's coach did, and her reaction to her coach getting caught made the rest inevitable.

The umpire is completely "clean" in this situation IMO. No probs agreeing to disagree if you see it differently.
 
pauldj42 said:
I’m not trying to prove anything, I just don’t believe the Umpire is “clean” in all this, as in the article he’s handled these situations differently in the past.
When she gets the first warning, it’s difficult to hear properly but he seems to accept she didn’t see the hand signals and she thanks him.
He, like her, could of handled the situation better imo, the WTA and USLTA coming out and supporting her says a lot for me, if it was so clear cut I don’t think they would of.
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She’s the face of women’s tennis. She is more important than anything else to the game. I think, just like in all other sports. Certain players get away with things as the authorities are scared. In this case I’d say the support she’s receiving just shows the associations think she’s more important to the game than the umpire is.

Which tbf is probably true. But it does make a mockery of having umpires. May as well domaway with em and use Hawkeye for it all.
 
Papas1982 said:
I accept she can feel hard done by, a bit like getting done for doing 75 on the motorway when you know full well loads get away with doing 100.... But at the same time, if you break a rule then you have to accept your consequences irrespective of what’s happened to others in the past.

Having read the link, I’m not sure the point the writer is making. It’s obviously written by a fan as they start off by building up her character refereeing her child’s birth etc, which has no relevance to the points being Discussed.

From what I can see, the main point is that it’s all his fault for having the audacity to charge her with coaching, but for me the responsibility is with the player. To use a footballing analogy, It’s a bit like a player complaining they get sent off for taking their shirt off after scoring a goal when on a yellow. Or hacking a player down after they were wrongly yellow carded in the first half. The player has to manage their game.

Once she had the code violation for coaching. Whether she agrees or not. She must know that a second violation will cost her a a point and a third would result in a game. Did all the men that apparently abused him, do so after one or two previous violations?
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The article gives an example of how the umpire dealt with Djokovic in a similar situation and didn’t apply a sanction.
 
pauldj42 said:
The article gives an example of how the umpire dealt with Djokovic in a similar situation and didn’t apply a sanction.
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He did apply a sanction to Djokovic in the example given. As it was Djokovic's first code violation, he got a warning as per the rules. Serena's first offence was for her coach coaching during the match.
 
pauldj42 said:
The article gives an example of how the umpire dealt with Djokovic in a similar situation and didn’t apply a sanction.
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Not quite the same though imo.
Djokovic got a warning for the coaching, and argued his case without further penalty.

Williams got a warming, argued a little with no further action.
Then broke racquet got next warning.
The has the meltdown and loses a game.

If she’d stoped after the intial warning, or hadn’t broken her racquet they may be compariable. Let’s be honest, we’ve all seen the red mist at some point. She’s now just looking for excuses and sexism is an easy one. But just for one second, let’s say i accept he treated her worse than Djokovic. That simply means that he was lucky, it doesn’t mean that she should have been treated any better.

She got what her actions deserved. If others should also have been given the same treatment is a fair point, but it doesn’t excuse her at all.
 
Papas1982 said:
Not quite the same though imo.
Djokovic got a warning for the coaching, and argued his case without further penalty.

Williams got a warming, argued a little with no further action.
Then broke racquet got next warning.
The has the meltdown and loses a game.

If she’d stoped after the intial warning, or hadn’t broken her racquet they may be compariable. Let’s be honest, we’ve all seen the red mist at some point. She’s now just looking for excuses and sexism is an easy one. But just for one second, let’s say i accept he treated her worse than Djokovic. That simply means that he was lucky, it doesn’t mean that she should have been treated any better.

She got what her actions deserved. If others should also have been given the same treatment is a fair point, but it doesn’t excuse her at all.
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I’ve never once excused her, have a look at my first posts.
The point for me is about inconsistencies from this umpire, Djokovic didn’t receive a warning for the argument, his rant wasn’t seen as abuse, the Umpire let him blow off steam, this time he decides he’s abused and gives her a game punishment.
 
pauldj42 said:
I’ve never once excused her, have a look at my first posts.
The point for me is about inconsistencies from this umpire, Djokovic didn’t receive a warning for the argument, his rant wasn’t seen as abuse, the Umpire let him blow off steam, this time he decides he’s abused and gives her a game punishment.
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He did exactly the same with Serena. She had a right good moan at him after she was given the warning for coaching. The umpire let it go and no more warnings were given at that point. It was a few games after when the raquet smashing happened and she got her 2nd code violation and she then had her melt down, went on and on and on at the umpire and crossed the line for me, and it seems the umpire when she called him a liar and a thief for applying the rules. Djokovic did nothing like that and so of course did not suffer the same fate.
 
pauldj42 said:
I’ve never once excused her, have a look at my first posts.
The point for me is about inconsistencies from this umpire, Djokovic didn’t receive a warning for the argument, his rant wasn’t seen as abuse, the Umpire let him blow off steam, this time he decides he’s abused and gives her a game punishment.
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The arcticle says Djokovic complained “like she did”, but unless he broke a racquet as well then they aren’t the same. She grumbled after the intial warming for coaching and he didn’t penalise her there and then (like Djokovic) Once she breaks a racquet and then continues to go off on one, he obviously decided eniugh was enough. If he hadn’t giving docked her a game, or apologised what would of happened next?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
A bit of sense from martina

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html
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Funnily enough I had similar thoughts when this first kicked off but then got distracted on other issues. In effect Navratilova is saying do you want equality if equality means poorer behaviour? Do you want to be part of a race to the bottom? Surely be better than that.

It was in her post match press conference that Williams seemed to want to be able to abuse umpires in a way she perceives men can do. Not a great aspiration.
 
Have to say it doesn't look good for Serena.

Plenty of others have had a go at officials, but she just wouldn't let it lie and ultimately the penalties escalated with every offence.

Plus, arguing with an official is one thing, openly calling them a cheat is a further step. At one point she said to the umpire 'don't talk to me' then 10 seconds later, she starts chuntering at him again.
Also giving the whole 'you will never referee another one of my matches' as if she is bigger and more important than Ramos. Very classless and not befitting of the great champion and competitor she is.

I don't think it is right that she has played the sexism card. She has broken the rules and I think the umpire would have made the same decision with repeat offenders, regardless of gender.
 
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