Scottish Universities

[rulefan]

England to put a cap on English students attending Scottish Universities, basic breach of freedom of movement within the UK.
Why is this funny.
In 2014 nearly all of the Scottish Universities were pro Union.

How can England put a cap on English students attending Scottish Universities?
Where did you see that? My granddaughter is supposed to be going the Edinburgh this later year.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

It seems to be in the news, not just Scotland BTW. NI and Wales also.
BTW I applaud your daughter on her choice Probably will not affect those already offered places.

 

[KenL]

Will be rubbish!
Could you send me a link to this news. My SiL is a professor at Ed uni.

 

[rulefan]

It seems to be in the news, not just Scotland BTW. NI and Wales also.
BTW I applaud your daughter on her choice Probably will not affect those already offered places.

Yes. Have just googled it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The idea is that with universities expecting a big drop in overseas students coming next academic year the govt wants to protect domestic universities by encouraging students to go to universities in England. Education is a devolved matter so it is for each country to decide its own policy. The govt can not pronounce for Wales, N Ireland and Scotland, only England.

This has nothing to do with freedom of movement, it is about where money goes to and whether money for English students should remain to a greater extent in these tricky times in England. Each devolved govt can reciprocate of course, as you would expect if this came into force.

It will be interesting to see if this takes off or whether this is one of those ideas that is floated and dismissed quite quickly.

 

[KenL]

Absolutely enrages me that EU residents other than NI, Wales and England get free uni education in Scotland.

Lots of people come from Eire to get free teacher training places then a guaranteed job for a year in order to gain full teacher registration.

But, those from NI, Wales or England have to pay £9k for their teacher training year. These people may well have worked for years and paid UK tax yet have to pay. It's just wrong.

 

[backwoodsman]

The idea is that with universities expecting a big drop in overseas students coming next academic year the govt wants to protect domestic universities by encouraging students to go to universities in England. Education is a devolved matter so it is for each country to decide its own policy. The govt can not pronounce for Wales, N Ireland and Scotland, only England.

This has nothing to do with freedom of movement, it is about where money goes to and whether money for English students should remain to a greater extent in these tricky times in England. Each devolved govt can reciprocate of course, as you would expect if this came into force.

It will be interesting to see if this takes off or whether this is one of those ideas that is floated and dismissed quite quickly.

As far as I can see, its not so much to "keep the money in England"- rather to keep money destined for English universities spread equitably across the English university system. It seems universities are being capped on the increase in students numbers they can recruit - so that universities can't poach students from each other. ie universities all take a share in the drop in numbers rather than some be unaffected while others take the total hit. Obviously this wouldnt work if English students all decamped to S/W/NI instead.

But on the other hand, it would have been politic for the DfE to have discussed this with their S/W/NI counterparts before settling on the scheme - and it's understandable that S/W/NI representatives are rather miffed.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Absolutely enrages me that EU residents other than NI, Wales and England get free uni education in Scotland.

Lots of people come from Eire to get free teacher training places then a guaranteed job for a year in order to gain full teacher registration.

But, those from NI, Wales or England have to pay £9k for their teacher training year. These people may well have worked for years and paid UK tax yet have to pay. It's just wrong.

Totally agree. My lad has just finished his first year at the University of Highlands and Islands, he's paying 9K a year, plus 5K for accommodation. Some of the lads on the course and in residence with him are from abroad, getting the same education for considerably less.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

As far as I can see, its not so much to "keep the money in England"- rather to keep money destined for English universities spread equitably across the English university system. It seems universities are being capped on the increase in students numbers they can recruit - so that universities can't poach students from each other. ie universities all take a share in the drop in numbers rather than some be unaffected while others take the total hit. Obviously this wouldnt work if English students all decamped to S/W/NI instead.

But on the other hand, it would have been politic for the DfE to have discussed this with their S/W/NI counterparts before settling on the scheme - and it's understandable that S/W/NI representatives are rather miffed.

Thank you, part of my post was a little clumsy and you have explained that sentence in particular better than I did.

 

[rulefan]

I could find nothing in the paper this morning

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I could find nothing in the paper this morning

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...tudents-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland
Google is your friend
Dated 30th May

 

[rulefan]

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...tudents-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland
Google is your friend
Dated 30th May

Yes I saw that and another paper (The National?) last night.

 

[KenL]

Yes I saw that and another paper (The National?) last night.

That is a propaganda rag, I wouldn't believe a word written in that!

 

[KenL]

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...tudents-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland
Google is your friend
Dated 30th May

Have asked my SiL for her take on it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That is a propaganda rag, I wouldn't believe a word written in that!

I Respect your view, but my take on it is that the other 95% of the Scottish rags [as you call them] are as much, if not more, propagandists for the failing Union.

That is why pro Unionist newspapers sales are falling off the cliff, they are basically ignoring over 50% of their intended customers.
Regional papers in Scotland like the P&J and Dundee Courier have a larger circulation than many so called 'Nationa'l papers. Especially the very pro Unionist Scotsman and Herald.

 

[KenL]

The union is only failing if you are in the minority.

 

[KenL]

So, it seems this cap applies to all universities across the UK. It is not about limiting English students just to Wales, NI or Scotland.

From BBC Scotland article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52884134

Scottish university bosses have hit out after UK ministers capped the number of English students they can enrol.
The UK government is to impose "student number controls" to prevent "over-recruitment" by some institutions.
These controls will also apply to universities in Scotland, meaning they will not be able to increase the intake of English students by more than 6.5%.

snip

With universities facing an uncertain future due to the coronavirus pandemic, there are fears that some could make mass unconditional offers to applicants to ward off a potential funding shortfall.

This has prompted the UK Department for Education to introduce a temporary cap on the number of English-based students that can be admitted to universities in 2020-21 - limiting each to an increase of about 6.5% on the previous year.
The cap will be enforced by the UK government which said it would cut the funding available to universities that breach the limit.
It has now been confirmed that the cap will apply to English students applying to universities in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as well as those in England.
UK Universities Minister Michelle Donelan said the controls would "stabilise the admissions system" and "avoid harmful over-recruitment among providers which could go against the interests of students and the sector".

 

[rulefan]

So, it seems this cap applies to all universities across the UK. It is not about limiting English students just to Wales, NI or Scotland.

From BBC Scotland article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52884134

Scottish university bosses have hit out after UK ministers capped the number of English students they can enrol.
The UK government is to impose "student number controls" to prevent "over-recruitment" by some institutions.
These controls will also apply to universities in Scotland, meaning they will not be able to increase the intake of English students by more than 6.5%.

snip

With universities facing an uncertain future due to the coronavirus pandemic, there are fears that some could make mass unconditional offers to applicants to ward off a potential funding shortfall.

This has prompted the UK Department for Education to introduce a temporary cap on the number of English-based students that can be admitted to universities in 2020-21 - limiting each to an increase of about 6.5% on the previous year.
The cap will be enforced by the UK government which said it would cut the funding available to universities that breach the limit.
It has now been confirmed that the cap will apply to English students applying to universities in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as well as those in England.
UK Universities Minister Michelle Donelan said the controls would "stabilise the admissions system" and "avoid harmful over-recruitment among providers which could go against the interests of students and the sector".

I don't think that will affect students that already have conditional or unconditional offers. I reckon it will have an impact on the clearing house system.

 

[KenL]

I think that will be the case.