Ruling not best practise please

[Steve Wilkes]

Preferred lies is a local rule, so maybe you need to check the wording of this local rule by the club/committee to see if the position needs to be marked before lifting, I'm pretty sure this would be the case when the PGA have preferred lies in place, but I'm only guessing

 

[IslaG]

Good morning- lots of replies while I’ve been asleep in NZ! Yes 30cm is common in NZ although you do see 1-club length. It’s normally in the summer when some courses can be very dry and bare - you are placing to avoid playing off hard packed ground whereas I think northern hemisphere place in winter to clean ball of mud. So for us moving far away from the spot to clean ball is not usually an issue. Local rule always ‘place’ not ‘replace’ for that reason (but I do check)

 

[jim8flog]

Preferred lies is a local rule, so maybe you need to check the wording of this local rule by the club/committee to see if the position needs to be marked before lifting, I'm pretty sure this would be the case when the PGA have preferred lies in place, but I'm only guessing

If the committee has a local rule saying the ball must be marked then they have a rule which is not allowed*, you may find some clubs have failed to change their local rule in accordance with the 2019 rules changes as it is an easy one to have overlooked.

*The allowable Local Rules are all specified in the full rules book with appropriate wording. If tey want a rule that is not specifed thya have to get written permission from the appropriate authority.

The PGA can set their own rules with matters like this hence they have one club length and not 6".

 

[Swango1980]

If the committee has a local rule saying the ball must be marked then they have a rule which is not allowed*, you may find some clubs have failed to change their local rule in accordance with the 2019 rules changes as it is an easy one to have overlooked.

*The allowable Local Rules are all specified in the full rules book with appropriate wording. If tey want a rule that is not specifed thya have to get written permission from the appropriate authority.

The PGA can set their own rules with matters like this hence they have one club length and not 6".

Also, in UK the Rules of Golf do not require the relief distance to be 6". It is the handicapping authority that require this, for scores to be acceptable for handicapping?

Thankfully, the professionals on the PGA Tour are not often submitting scores for their handicap record, so the local rule can follow the same guidance within the Rules of Golf that we do in the UK, except they can set the relief distance to the maximum allowable distance?[/QUOTE]

 

[rulie]

If the committee has a local rule saying the ball must be marked then they have a rule which is not allowed*, you may find some clubs have failed to change their local rule in accordance with the 2019 rules changes as it is an easy one to have overlooked.

*The allowable Local Rules are all specified in the full rules book with appropriate wording. If tey want a rule that is not specifed thya have to get written permission from the appropriate authority.

The PGA can set their own rules with matters like this hence they have one club length and not 6".

The PGA follow the same Rules of golf that the rest of the world follows. The Rules of golf do not specify 6 inches.

 

[Imurg]

Jeez...how long do people think it takes to shove a tee in the ground next to the ball, wipe said ball, put it back on the ground and pick up the tee at the same time..?
If the whole process adds 20 seconds to a round then people are doing it wrong...

The Rules leave themselves open to abuse from time to time.
No necessity to mark the ball but if you don't mark it you can't be sure of the original position...
"Should" put an identifying mark on your ball..you don't have to but if you can't identify it then it's lost.

That’s just 2 off the top of my head.
For the sake of a few words in the rules and a few seconds on the course..doesn't make sense to not do either...

 

[Steve Wilkes]

If the committee has a local rule saying the ball must be marked then they have a rule which is not allowed*, you may find some clubs have failed to change their local rule in accordance with the 2019 rules changes as it is an easy one to have overlooked.

*The allowable Local Rules are all specified in the full rules book with appropriate wording. If tey want a rule that is not specifed thya have to get written permission from the appropriate authority.

The PGA can set their own rules with matters like this hence they have one club length and not 6".

This is the local rule from Sherwood Forest Golf Course
So are you saying this is not allowed

TEMPORARY LOCAL RULES (WINTER RULES)
1. PREFERRED LIES
When Preferred Lies are in operation, a ball lying on any closely-mown General Area cut to fairway height may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and placed within 6 inches of its original position, no nearer the hole. Before lifting the ball the player must mark its position.
If the ball subsequently moves after it is placed the ball must be played as it lies.
2. MATS FOR THE PROTECTION OF FAIRWAYS
For the protection of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, 17th, and 18th fairways, during winter conditions, fairway mats MUST be used within the white-lines areas. Please lift, place on and play from the mats provided or from your own mat. The mat must be placed as near as possible to where the ball originally lay. The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Local Rule. Mats may only be used in the designated areas.
3. TEMPORARY WINTER GREENS
Temporary Winter Greens that are not in use on the day should be treated as Wrong Putting Greens so relief MUST be taken within one club-length of the nearest point of complete relief not nearer the hole.
4. AERATION HOLES
If a player’s ball lies in or touches an Aeration Hole:
Ball in General Area. The player may take relief under Rules 16.1b (Drop within one club length of the nearest point of complete relief not nearer the hole). If the ball comes to rest in another Aeration Hole the player may take relief again under this Local Rule.
Ball on Putting Green. The player may take relief under 16.1d (Place on the spot of the nearest point of complete relief).
BUT interference does NOT exist if the Aeration Hole only interferes with the player’s stance, or, on the Putting Green, on the player’s line of play.
Local Rules Updated 31st January 2019
Appendix to Updated Local Rules:
Model Local Rule E-5 (Official Guide to the Rules of Golf p472)
“When a player’s ball has not been found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance.
For two penalty strokes the player may take relief by dropping another ball in the relief area (see Rule 14.3).”
After consultation the R&A/USGA decided that this additional option would not be a Rule of Golf, but clubs could introduce it as a Local Rule if desired with the proviso that the option was not appropriate for elite play or competitions.
CONGU has indicated that competitions played with such a Local Rule in force would not count as qualifying for handicap purposes.
Consequently the committee has decided not to introduce this option as a Local Rule at SFGC.
31st January 2019

 

[jim8flog]

This is the local rule from Sherwood Forest Golf Course
So are you saying this is not allowed

TEMPORARY LOCAL RULES (WINTER RULES)
1. PREFERRED LIES
When Preferred Lies are in operation, a ball lying on any closely-mown General Area cut to fairway height may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and placed within 6 inches of its original position, no nearer the hole. Before lifting the ball the player must mark its position.
If the ball subsequently moves after it is placed the ball must be played as it lies.

31st January 2019

This is the allowable local rule from the R&A Note the requirement to mark the ball is not in the allowable LR.

I would also note and query what they mean by moves, the wording is a bit vague (IMO should say placed and at rest). If I place the ball and it moves immediately the rules require it to be placed again, if it fails to stay on that spot a player must try another spot.

Model Local Rule E-3


"When a player's ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as 'on the fairway of the 6th hole'], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

• Reference Point: Spot of the original ball.
• Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: [Specify size of relief area, such as one club-length, one scorecard length or 6 inches] from the reference point, but with these limits:
• Limits on Location of Relief Area:
  • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point, and
  • Must be in the general area.

In proceeding under this Local Rule, the player must choose a spot to place the ball and use the procedures for replacing a ball under Rules 14.2b(2) and 14.2e.


Penalty for Playing Ball from a Wrong Place in Breach of Local Rule: General Penalty Under Rule 14.7a."

R&A advice on LR s is

A Committee is encouraged to use the recommended text if it fits the local situation to minimize the number of times a player will find different versions of the same Local Rule at different courses or in different competitions.

• If a Committee changes the wording of a Model Local Rule to fit the particular needs of the course or competition, it needs to ensure that the changes are within the parameters allowed by the Model Local Rule and consistent with the stated purpose.
• In order to ensure that play is conducted in accordance with the Rules of Golf, a Committee must not use a Local Rule to waive or modify the Rules of Golf simply because it might prefer a Rule to be different.

 

[Colin L]

Preferred lies is a local rule, so maybe you need to check the wording of this local rule by the club/committee to see if the position needs to be marked before lifting, I'm pretty sure this would be the case when the PGA have preferred lies in place, but I'm only guessing

Perhaps you missed post #5 in which I quoted from Rule 14.1a.

When a ball is lifted to take relief under a Rule, the player is not required to mark the spot before lifting the ball.

A Committee does not have the discretion to alter a Rule.

 

[Foxholer]

...
"Should" put an identifying mark on your ball..you don't have to but if you can't identify it then it's lost.
...

That's a 'personal responsibility' - for both action and possible consequences - issue that are simply alluded to by The Rules.

 

[3offTheTee]

Model Local Rule E-3


"When a player's ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as 'on the fairway of the 6th hole'], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

Surely for speed if you KEPT the original ball where it was and placed ANOTHER ball within 6 inches or whatever is the rule in various countries Swango and The One and only would be happy. The player would have a clean, warm ball, no need to mark and the speed of play would be increased

 

[Swango1980]

Model Local Rule E-3


"When a player's ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as 'on the fairway of the 6th hole'], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

Surely for speed if you KEPT the original ball where it was and placed ANOTHER ball within 6 inches or whatever is the rule in various countries Swango and The One and only would be happy. The player would have a clean, warm ball, no need to mark and the speed of play would be increased

I'd have wrong against a player doing that, they could do it now. However, not sure it would speed up play, especially if it became mandatory. You'd have players hunting around their bag for a fresh ball, and then presumably many would end up having to clean the original ball at some point anyway.

I'm not too concerned with the ruling now, the fact the ball does not need to be marked simply means a player can lift the ball up and immediately place it on a nice piece of grass, especially if the ball does not need to be cleaned.

In terms of marking the ball, the only reason I and others responded was because the question was asked "what is the point?". Therefore, I think we did our best to answer that question, and provide scenarios where it would definitely be a good idea. Unfortunately, the person did not accept this answer simply because "the rules say there is no requirement". That is true, although it does not negate the rules of golf that discuss playing from the wrong place, and so marking a ball can avoid the potential of falling foul of that.

I'd be interested to know that if an official referee recommended a ball was marked, and got a similar response from the player (being adamant there was no point cos there is nothing in the rules), how they would react?

 

[3offTheTee]

I'd have wrong against a player doing that, they could do it now. However, not sure it would speed up play, especially if it became mandatory. You'd have players hunting around their bag for a fresh ball, and then presumably many would end up having to clean the original ball at some point anyway.

I'm not too concerned with the ruling now, the fact the ball does not need to be marked simply means a player can lift the ball up and immediately place it on a nice piece of grass, especially if the ball does not need to be cleaned.

In terms of marking the ball, the only reason I and others responded was because the question was asked "what is the point?". Therefore, I think we did our best to answer that question, and provide scenarios where it would definitely be a good idea. Unfortunately, the person did not accept this answer simply because "the rules say there is no requirement". That is true, although it does not negate the rules of golf that discuss playing from the wrong place, and so marking a ball can avoid the potential of falling foul of that.

I'd be interested to know that if an official referee recommended a ball was marked, and got a similar response from the player (being adamant there was no point cos there is nothing in the rules), how they would react?

Appreciate your comments. I always have a spare ball in my pocket, different marking, in case I need to play a provisional at any time. Also it is to my advantage, I understand, to have a warmer ball for distance which it should be if it came from my pocket.

May I also say that as a ‘novice‘ compared to many on here I tend to accept what more knowledgeable people say.

 

[rulefan]

I'd be interested to know that if an official referee recommended a ball was marked, and got a similar response from the player (being adamant there was no point cos there is nothing in the rules), how they would react?

Whether or not I had made a recommendation but was in close proximity, I would carefully watch the actions of the player and note the original position. If he placed the ball incorrectly I suggest he places again correctly.

 

[rulie]

Whether or not I had made a recommendation but was in close proximity, I would carefully watch the actions of the player and note the original position. If he placed the ball incorrectly I suggest he places again correctly.

Same process as watching a dropped ball - if it rolled out of the relief area, have the player re-drop. A referee's responsibility is to help the players play within the Rules. We don't wear striped/coloured shirts and carry a whistle, and we try to prevent Rules breaches when possible.