Rudeness

[markwarne]

Not been on the site for a while, so I hope nobody minds me jumping back on to pose a question that has left myself and my golf partner with a bit of a quandry.

We were out today ready to enter our clubs monthly medal. The weather was fantastic and we both were dressed taking the weather into account. My partner had a pair of Nike shorts on that came just below the knee, whilst mine were down to my calf - bear with me, this is going somewhere.

We were on the first tee, getting ready to head off - practise swings, etc. At this point, the club captain strode up from the tea hut where he was taking a break with his playing partners. He "asked" (in a fashion of asking) if we were both memebers. On reply, he pointed at me and claimed "you should know better wearing those shorts" and at my partner saying "those are not golf shorts".

Now I accept that the attire was subject to interpretation of club rules. However, we were somewhat shocked at the behaviour of the captain. To march up to two other members as they are about to tee off in a competition and frankly be very rude (when he could have waited for us to go and then had a quiet word) left a really bad taste in the mouth and ruined our round and day.

Has anybody else had this type of rudeness displayed towards them and is there any point in taking this further. As I say, this is not about dress code, but about rude and impolite behaviour from someone who should perhaps know better.

 

[RGuk]

Interesting.....we had a few comments this morning about some of the attire....

It was suggested (by one of my 4 ball) that at ours, all incidents of poor etiquette/dress code/etc. should now go through the management, and the captain no longer has to carry this "responsibility".

In a private club, Captains usually stick their necks out on these issues. If he was rude (or came across as so) I guess you have to satisfy yourself whether he was out of line or just doing his job. I've been on the back of stuff like this, and I always try to adhere to rules.....these things happen......you're unlikely to get any support.....most clubs are far from a democracy.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd firstly check the club rules on shorts and summer attire to make sure you are in the right and then quietly have a word with the captain about the situation and the maneer you were dealt with and the fact that it was a club competition.

Try not to make a big fuss but point out that they were a) golf shorts made by a recognised golf manufacturer, b) adhered to club policy and if relevant c) have been worn at the club before with no issues

 

[birdieman]

Don't know whether your captain was out of order or not with his comments but I will truthfully say that I do not like to see shorts of any kind on men on a golf course, loose light fabric long trousers are better at keeping you cool anyway and always look smarter. Also don't really approve of mock neck shirts, should have a collar.
There said it!

......heads for nuclear shelter in garden!

 

[Atticus_Finch]

I agree with you Birdieman, but I don't think Mark is querying the rights and wrongs of what he was wearing, but more the manners and attitude of the captain.
On that matter I would have to agree with Homer and firstly check who was right and who was wrong. If you are in the former Mark, then it's a powerful weapon to have in any "discussions" with captain. If not, then swallow hard and accept that there are some people that are just rude. It's not illegal yet.

 

[mackenzie]

I disagree with Birdieman. I played today and it was sweltering even in the early morning. I was wishing I had gone out in shorts. I can't see how tailored shorts with socks are a problem.

Yet another incidence of golfing pettiness - poor old markwarne.

 

[birdieman]

Fair enough mackenzie but on the whole British men's legs should not be forced upon the rest of us as they look so bad, it's off-putting to opponents and therefore tantamount to cheating!

 

[mackenzie]

lol I'll have you know my legs are the pride of Cheshire!

 

[welshjim22]

Personally i don't care what anybody else wears, maybe just because i am still in my 20's, although i agree we should all be reasonable smart. What annoys me is club staff or captains getting out of their tree over issues like the above or my pet hate the shirts tucked in or not issue. They look just as smart in or out unless we are taking stupidly baggy. Leave it to the individual i don't normally tuck my shirt in as i feel more comfortbale with it out, i also normally wear jeans unless too hot or wet. And i think i still look smart. The one item of clothing that should be banned though is football shirts.


As long as you look reasonable smart who cares, and what real difference does it make.

Birdieman if you don't like seeing shorts on men, stop looking. Can i assume young slim females in shorts are ok though?

Golf is a sport get out have fun and stop worrying about the little things. Ban the stuffy dress codes and stick with casual but smart.

 

[Cernunnos]

The rules obout shorts & for that matter what socks are to be allowed with shorts, vary from club to club. Though as a general rule if an article of clothing is designed for golf then it usually goes that it will be allowed.

Personally I think any sock looks good with the standard taylored shorts that most clubs accept.

There again this week both myself & the missus were playing away at Wensum Valley & it was amazing how many people were playing in combat style (the sort where the pockets are sown on the outside) shorts, that almost came down to the anckle. I quite expected the pro to come charging out of his office at any moment. Though no-one paid any notice at all.

On another relevent topic still to do with shorts I tend to get eaten alive by various insects in the summer & I wore shorts on two of the days, with the inevitable result that my right inner calf is now red & swollen up..... Hey-ho

 

[Parmo]

To a degree I agree with MW. I sometimes wear golf shorts and usually end up paying extra due to them being proper golf shorts that look smart and are just cut off chinos with ellastic movement on the waist built in on the sides, I would not though wear socks pulled up but trainer socks as I want to look smart not a total pillock.

I would not though wear 3/4 shorts on the course because I do not think of them as smart.

Times are changing though and clubs who stick to ridgid dress codes of years gone by will be the ones lossing out in the race to sign new members, by saying that I a not saying jeans just a more smart sport approch to golfing attire.

 

[USER1999]

I am in two minds about the dress code issue. Whilst having a code is good, if it is not rigorously enforced, than it is pointless and annoying. At my home track we have the worst of both worlds. It is enforced for certain people, ignored for others. This is rubbish.

3/4 length cargo shorts, with black shoes and black work socks is not a good look, on the course or not. Any one wearing this look should be shot.

 

[Parmo]

I am in two minds about the dress code issue. Whilst having a code is good, if it is not rigorously enforced, than it is pointless and annoying. At my home track we have the worst of both worlds. It is enforced for certain people, ignored for others. This is rubbish.

3/4 length cargo shorts, with black shoes and black work socks is not a good look, on the course or not. Any one wearing this look should be shot.

I concur... see forumer below for point.

 

[birdieman]

Birdieman if you don't like seeing shorts on men, stop looking. Can i assume young slim females in shorts are ok though?

Of course women can wear shorts - they have (Laura Davies apart) attractive legs.
I don't look at men's legs but when horribly white hairy varicosed-veined limbs make their twice a year expedition outside the confines of long-legged trousers they are an abomination that we should not have to tolerate when playing golf. You can try your best not to look but over the course of 4 hours on the golf course they will invariably invade your field of vision from time to time causing distress and upset!
The etiquette and decorum still found at most golf clubs is what sets this great game apart and makes most of us proud to be part of our respective Golf Clubs. It's not old-fashioned to be smartly turned out, you can still be stylish and wear designer labels if you want just let's keep the trousers long please.

 

[minty18]

I'm going to have to jump in on this one..... two footed studs showing!

I cant believe people still find it unacceptable to wear shorts on the golf course. Bermuda shorts or 3/4 length trousers are unacceptable however I think tailored shorts with wite socks look very smart.... regardless of what the blokes legs look like.

Without creating a north/south divide i think it may be the northerners against this idea as i took a load of stick off some scots when on holiday this year for wearing tailored shorts with loafers.... another look that i think looks very smart..... sorry to go off the golf theme on that one.

If we're so set in our ways why dont we all go back to wearing plus fours? and only allow this on every course.

 

[viscount17]

I am in two minds about the dress code issue. Whilst having a code is good, if it is not rigorously enforced, than it is pointless and annoying. At my home track we have the worst of both worlds. It is enforced for certain people, ignored for others. This is rubbish.

3/4 length cargo shorts, with black shoes and black work socks is not a good look, on the course or not. Any one wearing this look should be shot.

I concur murph' and most definitely with the 3/4's. Most courses have a code, many only play lipservice which is when it gets annoying.

One difficulty is that as a guest you can be caught out, which is when some leeway and plain old-fashioned good manners should be shown. As a member, you should know.

There are those clubs that insist on fully tailored shorts and knee length socks, and some riculous combinations that produces! (Remember the prat with the red and blue hooped ones eagle?) Personally I think shorts look better with trainer socks (and I'm not 20) but shirts in.

birdie, the answer is get your knees brown!

 

[markwarne]

Well - this seems to have started a bit of a debate on the correct golfing attire.

Whilst I agree that club rules should be adhered to for the benefit of members, I feel that (and this was in one of the thread replies) clubs should start to relax their dress codes a little to keep up with the every increasing level of "golf fashion". Now I am not advocating the plain silly in this, but what happens if someone turns up one day a la Poulter with pink strides and a lime green top. Are they going to be told its not acceptable? If clubs want to attract new members (i.e younger people) they are going to have to consider that a 20 something (as stated in another thread - although I do disagree about jeans on the golf course) will not wear "above the knee shorts" as it is simply not up with fashion.

However, my purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the fashion element of golf (although all your insights are relevant). It was to ask the question of how my playing partner and I deal with the abrupt rudeness of the captain.

We accept that we will not win on this matter as - I think Birdieman said it - golf clubs are not democracies. However, it is not the point of winning here - it is the point of absolute lack of manners by a respected member of a golf club.

We are considering drafting a letter to the proprietor of the club, pointing out that if the captain wants to treat members like this, then simply we will find another club next year and make sure our other friends (who are genuinely considering joining) do so also. This will deprive a perfectly pleasant course of £10k of valuable income all because somebody (although doing their job as captain) decides to do it in a manner that is not becoming.

Is this a bit of a draconian route to take? Or is there a valid point to be made here? Once a letter goes in, I would suggest there is no turning back. :confused

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think you need to think carefully because like you say once the letter is in it won't be retracted. My point was to check the club rules to make sure you weren't infringing in any way as that will make any point you raised about the captains attitude null and void. If you are in the right make sure you have support. Talk is cheap but if bans etc are threatened it is very often the case that those you thought were supporting you now back down in order to continue playing (seen it happen so often)

 

[USER1999]

I would leave it alone. It is possible that you were the umpteenth member the Captain has felt the need to pull on the dress code that day, and he had had enough, or may be he is just rude.

Next year someone else will be captain, and this guy is yesterdays man.

Bear in mind that the first hot day of the year brings out all sorts of terrible dress, as the British really don't know what to wear in hot weather, and most of what they own doesn't conform to the dress code.

 

[viscount17]

I think I can see where mark is coming from on this one but I can also see murph's point.

It comes down to this, was the guy rude - or was it your perception? His opening question to you as to whether you were members implies that he may have continued differently had you said no. The chances are that you were in the wrong gear (your 3/4's almost definitely so and many clubs say shorts should be tailored, ie no 'cargo' pockets, and knee length) and it is quite possible that he was heavy handed <u>because</u> you were members (implicit, 'you're members, you should know better, there are guests present, you're letting us down etc').

As for changing the dress code to keep up with fashion - forget it! That was precisely why so many clubs introduced a dress code.