Rough that’s too rough

[HomerJSimpson]

That would be very interesting and I think that would be a smart move for them. The club is going through a big change at the moment with loads of new staff, it would definitely be interesting as the practice facility is already great.

I can't see how they can justify the cost long term of a six hole course and really think with some big investment they could have a top class practice facility. I'd love to see a grass area to hit from on the range, more bunkers and an extended pitching area. It is already a great facility but has the potential to be world class

 

[sulgolf]

I can't see how they can justify the cost long term of a six hole course and really think with some big investment they could have a top class practice facility. I'd love to see a grass area to hit from on the range, more bunkers and an extended pitching area. It is already a great facility but has the potential to be world class

It would be more worth while investing in a grass hitting area, which not many clubs have at all round here, along with bunkers and more practice greens. This would attract quality players and far more people to the facility instead of a six hole course.

 

[Slab]

For a club comp it doesn’t matter much to the outcome what the rough is like as the conditions are the same for all and players need to learn to take a club off the tee that more often won’t put them in the rough (we’re all guilty at some time of hitting the usual club for xy hole without learning that the rough might be up just now)

For social golf if it’s too long it adds time & sucks away some of the fun (& maybe costs a lost ball or two)

So, weather permitting & since it’s a level field in a comp whatever the length, then it should be cut so that a ball is easily findable but restricts the distance by 1-2 clubs

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I can understand why some courses like to toughen their courses for their big events like club championships but I agree with Slab there has to be a balance as well that means for the normal golfer to enjoy a round the rough should have a degree of penalty to it without spending 2-3 minutes per hole looking for a ball just off fairway. Even in the monthly medal, keep play going with a set up that means the ball will settle at the bottom of the grass but it isn't too long to not see the ball quickly. I appreciate its a huge balancing act for green staff and course managers and I feel for the most part, certainly where I play they get it right more often than not

 

[Hobbit]

Depending on where you are in the U.K. it’s that time of year when the rough can be a bit ‘rough.’ The growing season is starting but cutting it with the potential for frost to damage it after it’s just been cut makes for difficult decisions for the Greens staff.

If it’s still mega-rough in a months time have a whinge but, at present, just be happy spring has arrived.

 

[jim8flog]

Please define 'too tough'.

Are you just expecting too much e.g. expecting to still be able to hit a relatively normal shot with a mid iron.

If you can put a wedge on the ball and get it back to the fairway then to me the rough is not "too tough".

If you cannot do that then to me that is when rough is too tough but is relatively rare to find that sort of length adjoining a fairway.

 

[r0wly86]

Please define 'too tough'.

as a beginner are you just expecting too much e.g. expecting to still be able to hit a relatively normal shot with a mid iron.

If you can put a wedge on the ball and get it back to the fairway then to me the rough is not "too tough".

If you cannot do that then to me that is when rough is too tough but is relatively rare to find that sort of length adjoining a fairway.

surely that depends on where you are, too many times, especially this time of year my ball will take a weird bounce and maybe just roll off into the first cut. The punishment for being in the first cut in my opinion should be that you can still hit the ball, but you won't be able to control the spin as much as from the fairways. It would seem a tad harsh that if you miss the fairway by inches that your only option is to hack the ball on 30 yards back onto the fairway.

If however we are talking about the rough rough then as long as you can find your ball then you have to take your medicine

 

[jim8flog]

surely that depends on where you are, too many times, especially this time of year my ball will take a weird bounce and maybe just roll off into the first cut. The punishment for being in the first cut in my opinion should be that you can still hit the ball, but you won't be able to control the spin as much as from the fairways. It would seem a tad harsh that if you miss the fairway by inches that your only option is to hack the ball on 30 yards back onto the fairway.

If however we are talking about the rough rough then as long as you can find your ball then you have to take your medicine

I read the OP as as new to the game rather than new to the forum.

On a 'normally' prepared course I would agree. Where I play, in winter, grass cutting is kept to the minimum necessary and it is very easy to lose definition between fairway and first cut and first cut and primary rough on some of the holes but it is never the sort of length in the first cut that would mean hitting a wedge only, hence my question to the OP about defining 'too tough'.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Two things are often the cause, outside unintended or forced situations.

1. Courses toughening up.
This could be due to poor course design or clubs wanting to be “the toughest course in town”. Often at the expense of visitor and member enjoyment.

2. Not enough money.
In these hard times often getting the right equipment and enough staff to maintain grass outside of fairways, tees and greens is pretty tough. Often grass under trees and outside the semi rough is maintained at the cheapest cost.

Again this just hurts visitors and members alike and can be a vicious circle.

 

[sulgolf]

I read the OP as as new to the game rather than new to the forum.

On a 'normally' prepared course I would agree. Where I play, in winter, grass cutting is kept to the minimum necessary and it is very easy to lose definition between fairway and first cut and first cut and primary rough on some of the holes but it is never the sort of length in the first cut that would mean hitting a wedge only, hence my question to the OP about defining 'too tough'.

Ah sorry I should have specified, not new to the game, just new to the forum.

 

[inthehole]

Overlong/overthick rough should be an absolute no no for members clubs. It is probably the biggest reason for slow play and slow play is one of the biggest issues facing golf. Noone enjoys spending time looking for lost balls and even less losing a ball from a shot which wasn't really that bad. It should however make playing your next shot more difficult .

There are lots of reasons why clubs sometimes let the rough get too thick , and one of them is to protect the course. I agree with an earlier poster who said that this is often down to course design and setup but would also add it is sometimes due to clubs trying to protect against the effect of modern equipment...…...

 

[Grant85]

I agree that for most courses being played as members courses, set ups should allow for players to find their ball quite easilly. To speed up play and aid enjoyment.

At my course, the fairways / playing areas for each hole are fairly generous, but a wild tee shot might be a tough to find. It's frustrating, but on most holes you probably have a 40 to 50 yard wide target of fairway / semi rough / primary rough that you can usually find your ball in ok and play a shot from. Beyond that it is basically unkempt grass that is matted and is effectively a lost ball unless you can stand on it. The problem is that you always still go over and give it 2 or 3 minutes rather than just moving on.

One characteristic is that there is very few holes where a wide shot finds the next fairway. The holes are just generally far enough apart that you can pretty much only play on the hole you are playing. So that does speed up play in terms of not having areas where you are waiting for players to move on before hitting a shot in their general area. Also, I feel, much fairer. Completely unfair to miss a fairway 30 yards right and still have a mid iron into the green from a perfect lie, while a shot 8 yards right could be in rough behind a tree.

 

[Tashyboy]

Here's a thought behind rough that's to long. A couple of years ago I played in a fourball which turned out to be a three ball as Mellys back had gone. The club had hired a machine to blitz all the extra long rough. It was brutal. Melly went round with us and between us we found over 900 balls. Melly found the most, his back was proper knackered. Now those balls were lost. How much time was spent looking for those balls. Some of the rough was brutal, it is nowhere near as bad now and rightly so. There's rough and there's jungle.

 

[need_my_wedge]

A few years back, our club decided to grow the second cut a bit longer and thicker. It got ridiculous, your ball could literally run a foot off the fairway and not be found. They've since tamed it down a bit, by all means make it tougher to play out of, but you shouldn't lose your ball a few inches off the fairway.

I also think they shouldn't grow the rough up in the tree lines either. The punishment in the trees is playing out sideways mostly, should have a chance at finding a ball, unless you're so far off the beaten track.

 

[need_my_wedge]

It’s the course I use to practice sometimes, only 6 holes but quality practice facilities, Pachesham Golf Club in Surrey. I agree it should cost a shot but this stuff is so thick I’m losing a ball on the edge of the fairway, so I feel it’s a bit long at the moment, but I guess that’s just because it’s only spring at the moment

Drove past that two weeks ago, saw the sign for 6 holes of golf in 1 hour, thought it an interesting idea, but not really for me, I prefer to play more unless I'm in a particular hurry.

 

[Carpfather1]

The rough at my home club can be brutal at times but not too bad on the 2nd or even 3rd cut but If you really hit a wild one then your in forestry ,brambles ,meadow grass etc ect so got no chance of finding it then a few complained about it to the club sec and his reply was don’t go in it then 😂.A few years back when I was a member at p&k the one summer they had the British amateurs there and the way they brought the rough on and narrowed the fairways was brutal anything a bit wayward and you had a job to find your ball and if you did find it you had to hack it out also the pace on the greens was ridiculous.It was nice to have it go back to normal after the amateurs weekend had finished .

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Drove past that two weeks ago, saw the sign for 6 holes of golf in 1 hour, thought it an interesting idea, but not really for me, I prefer to play more unless I'm in a particular hurry.

It was a 9 holer and they lost the 3 holes over the road (going for development I think) and so they were left with 6 and so have had to try and be creative in re-branding it. Personally, with a little thought, investment and effort, they could put three lots of tees in (not necessarily from the same points) and make it into an 18 holer that way. No different to places like Thames Ditton where they have nine holes and two separate tee boxes

 

[Orikoru]

It was a 9 holer and they lost the 3 holes over the road (going for development I think) and so they were left with 6 and so have had to try and be creative in re-branding it. Personally, with a little thought, investment and effort, they could put three lots of tees in (not necessarily from the same points) and make it into an 18 holer that way. No different to places like Thames Ditton where they have nine holes and two separate tee boxes

That just seems like you'd have a pile-up of people when a group comes round to play the 1st hole for the third time, while other people are just teeing off for their allotted start time. Would be impossible to manage it surely.

 

[duncan mackie]

There's a distinct lack of connected thinking around many of these issues.

Firstly whole lot of modern UK courses were built around very mixed ability players, leaning towards the learner. They have a stock look with few hazards directly in front of the green (and frequently a bunker either side of it!).
Greens are very weather dependant, rather than designed in their condition.
Mature trees were rarely added as restrictions to green approach shots (because we didn't do a lot of big tree movements - apart from chopping them down) when building.
All this means that not being in the right place from the tee can only be punished by the conditions you are left to play from - which as most who play well designed mature courses will appreciate is weird! When you have no realistic shot to the half of the green the flag is on from the wrong side of the fairway you understand how silly the concept of what's you lie like as a course protection feature really is.
The US went a different route and put water down one side and trees the other - the water generally protecting the good side to approach feature romantic. It's quick, and not as penal as losing a ball in the rough (half the penalty really) - and they get to sell you your ball back again later!
So, don't grow the rough to toughen up the course, and don't mow the fairway wider to make it easier either (better to increase the semi cut width that stops the ball rolling into the rough).
Dig a ditch or bunker in front of the green instead.

 

[Wolf]

A few years back, our club decided to grow the second cut a bit longer and thicker. It got ridiculous, your ball could literally run a foot off the fairway and not be found. They've since tamed it down a bit, by all means make it tougher to play out of, but you shouldn't lose your ball a few inches off the fairway.

I also think they shouldn't grow the rough up in the tree lines either. The punishment in the trees is playing out sideways mostly, should have a chance at finding a ball, unless you're so far off the beaten track.

This point for me is key, and something that my club does well, all trees are also clipped up to a certain point to aid finding the ball but still means you have to play out sideways unless you can pull off a tigeresque recovery. Keeps play moving quicker as well.