Rolling my wrists

[Foxholer]

Look at the below example of Master Luke.

Has he rolled his wrists?

Who would know - as it's a still photo.

And JO. I disagree with you - but 'only just'. The right wrist moves further than the left one from just before to (from position 6 to 9 in some coaches terms) so has to move around the right one, therefore there is a 'roll'. However, it is (well should be) only enough to get the toe of the club pointing straight up at position 9.

And you/Crossfield's assertion about there being no roll breaks down (just) when you realise that a roll(around)-less rotation -a stiff-wristed one - wouldn't hit the ball very far. It's the combination and synchronisation of all the elements of a swing that provide the optimal result.

 

[One Planer]

Who would know - as it's a still photo.

This is also a still photo (Different angle)

Has he rolled his wrists now?

 

[Foxholer]

This is also a still photo (Different angle)

Has he rolled his wrists now?

Absolutely!

But AROUND, not over!

 

[JustOne]

And JO. I disagree with you - but 'only just'.

No problem, I've no need to get into an argument about it.... Mark Crossfield who is a qualified PGA instructor saying "they are NOT rolling over" is good enough for lil ol' me

 

[Foxholer]

No problem, I've no need to get into an argument about it.... Mark Crossfield who is a qualified PGA instructor saying "they are NOT rolling over" is good enough for lil ol' me

That 1 word (over) makes all the difference! We both agree!

BTW. Was it good enough for you when he (according to you) talked about 'rolling your wrists'? He was a qualified PGA (or should that be PGA qualified) instructor then too!

 

[JustOne]

BTW. Was it good enough for you when he (according to you) talked about 'rolling your wrists'? He was a qualified PGA (or should that be PGA qualified) instructor then too!

No, he was a knob then

OK, I'll confess....I've not seen any videos (only seen a few snippets of his stuff) of his pertaining to releasing the hands or rolling/crossing of the hands until this evening when I was looking for his 'new video' but could only find one from 2010 which was a load of poppycock, talked about crossing the hands over etc to get more power and "if we were throwing a ball" and all that rubbish... that said I think he's realised that the swing isn't what it was thought to be and his new 'release' video even entertains the use of high speed cameras, albeit pretty crappy footage that is pretty inconclusive. So maybe I will start liking him a bit more... only time will tell, I've been here since Apr 2009 (three and a half years!!) saying what it's taken him until 20th Oct 2012 to say , just waiting now until he talks about the weight being on the left side and the shoulders turning in a circle,,,, hang on!...... every commentary you hear nowadays talks about the weight being on the left side........... maybe they're onto something!!!!

Still, he's a qualified pro who is man enough to change his opinion when it's shown to be wrong, can't ask more than that

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

This is also a still photo (Different angle)

Has he rolled his wrists now?

I hope so he's in the bunker!!! This isn't a roll during the impact interval it's club face layback.

No one on tour actively rolls there wrists. If they did they wouldn't be on tour.

If a golfer rolls the wrists the low point is compromised as is the club face relative to the path.

In order to hit the balls in the most predictable pattern the golfer will sustain the line of compression, maintaing the club faces relationship to the path the longest.

 

[alex57834]

Okay okay okay STOP THERE when I started the lesson I hit a few balls and most of them were going to the right a bit so he suggested rolling my hands to get it parallel. He wanted to make it feel as I was trying to get it in the lower left corner. He showed me staying still that if I rolled my wrists it would go there but with the weight transfer, the club head is parallel therefore hitting a straight shot. He suggested this because I was slightly scooping the ball and wanted to get rid of it.

One more question does God exist. Please Discuss.

 

[One Planer]

One more question does God exist. Please Discuss.

No, he doesn't :thup:

Back to your OP. If you roll your wrists open in the back swing you will need to reverse this into impact. Is this what you do/meant?

 

[alex57834]

Yes, and without shifting your weight it would go down and left but with shifting your weight it would go straight. That's the idea.

 

[One Planer]

Yes, and without shifting your weight it would go down and left but with shifting your weight it would go straight. That's the idea.

I used to suffer the same, however when I rolled them open, they returned open (Slice city). The best advise I was given was rather than try and return them to square at impact, don't roll them open in the backswing :thup:

 

[alex57834]

You don't roll it open you roll it closed and the weight transfer will get it back to parallel from a closed club face. After the hit you are still closing it so the club face points to the left and my pro told me it's right when you look like you can take your right hand off it and handshake someone.

 

[One Planer]

You don't roll it open you roll it closed and the weight transfer will get it back to parallel from a closed club face. After the hit you are still closing it so the club face points to the left and my pro told me it's right when you look like you can take your right hand off it and handshake someone.

I think you missed by point fella.

If you roll your wrists open in the back swing you will need to reverse this into impact. Is this what you do/meant?

I'm talking about rolling the wrists open on the BACKSWING, so the toe of the club halfway back points to the sky. Then, having to reverse the roll on the DOWNSWING into impact.

This is what I used to do.

If you dont roll your wrists open on the back swing, why would you need to roll them throught the downswing?

 

[drutz]

Speak from a learners point of view, I was all a bit wristey and my last lesson my pro has had me work on less wrist movement not more. He says the less I move my/use wrists, apart from hinging etc. which is required, the better I will strike the ball. And he seems to be right, with less going on I seem to hit the ball better. But that's just me

 

[SocketRocket]

This is also a still photo (Different angle)

Has he rolled his wrists now?

As he is hitting a sand shot he will have kept the face opn through impact but will also have swung across the line. This is why he looks as if his wrists have turned to the left.

 

[One Planer]

As he is hitting a sand shot he will have kept the face opn through impact but will also have swung across the line. This is why he looks as if his wrists have turned to the left.

I agree Brian.

Te point I was trying to make, in responce to Fox, was a still picture can still show what a player is doing at a given point of the swing.

 

[Foxholer]

I agree Brian.

Te point I was trying to make, in responce to Fox, was a still picture can still show what a player is doing at a given point of the swing.

I could be convinced be a series of still pics for the same swing/situation, but it's only through assumption and/or recognition/previous knowledge that a particular still reflects certain previous activity.

The Crossman vid has a perfect example of the above when he sets himself in the post impact position (btw. it's P8, not P9 sorry) without having actually swung. If there was a 'still' of that position, it would be reasonable, but wrong, to assume that he had got there by a 'normal' swing.

And even with the 'club layback' that is part of the bunker shot, Donald will have moved (rolled even) the right wrist around the left one (from P6 to P8).

 

[Foxholer]

Yes, and without shifting your weight it would go down and left but with shifting your weight it would go straight. That's the idea.

I fail to see how (simply) shifting your weight would have any effect. Though the fact that it's likely that you are now further forward could well be a good thing - the low-point of a (non Driver) swing should be after impact, not before. And most of your weight should be on the left (for righties) at impact anyway. Oh, and it helps to turn as well!

Anybody's 'good' swing is really just a case of synchronisation of the separate but connected movements that are going on! Having 'wrist roll' in the back-swing just adds another element (resetting the club-face to square through impact) to the list of things involved in this synchronisation!

 

[Jensen]

Personally I think there may be confusion with wrist/forearm roll compared to wrist/forearm turnover release.

I agree with a post earlier that providing the grip is neutral, then the forearms/wrists turnover naturally.

I used to struggle with rolling my wrists/ forearms OPEN in the BACKSWING at the half way point, which would then lead to a very flat swing. To correct this I now ensure that the clubhead stays outside my hands so when I have turned my shoulders to 45 degrees the clubhead is still outside my hands and is still square to my body. As an exercise adopt a stance with a club as though about to hit a ball, now turn the shoulders 45 degrees with NO WRIST/FOREARM roll. At this point turn your feet and hips round 45 degrees to match up with your shoulders so that you are square but facing 45 degrees away from the target . From here drop your arms down to the ground, the clubhead should now be square, be it 45 degrees away from the target. If you do this then the wrists will not have rolled over.
I hope this makes sence.

I firmly believe you do not manipulate the wrists forearms to turn over, this happens automatically in the swing.

 

[duncan mackie]

....... After the hit you are still closing it so the club face points to the left and my pro told me it's right when you look like you can take your right hand off it and handshake someone.

I think you need to consider your terminology Alex....if the club shaft is pointing at the target then a square (not closed) club face will be 'pointing' straight left, in the same way as a square club face will be pointing straight right in the back swing when the club shaft is pointing directly away from the target.

JustOne explained how to prove this to yourself in an early post.

As others have tried to exlain this happens (has to happen) as a natural result of the basic swing dynamics and any manipulation of the wrists relative to each other in either the backswing or downswing will result in an out of square club face at some point, which in turn will require a correction and is inherently a bad thing (an unnecessary complication).