Ridiculous pins

[Lump]

Why do greens keepers do this? We have a couple of greens on the course that are very undulating. These greens do not need protecting with pins that are just plain unfair, yet week after week we have pins that are stuck 4/5 feet from major slopes. It makes these holes possible card wreckers even if you hit them in GIR. I've raised this with the committee and it seemingly falls on deaf ears.

 

[duncan mackie]

isn't the point of such pins that you have to hit the right part of the green for them?

the same can apply on many greens ie if you are the wrong side by any distance you face 1 or 3 putts, but rarely 2.

4 or 5 ft from the major slopes sounds about right to me

edit - just an aside on pins. once played an open where the committee and greenstaff had marked out the impossible, simple and 'medium' pin positions on each green the evening before the event. the intention being that there would be 6 of each on the day - due to a minor communication breakdown we got 18 impossibles! most struggled, but enjoyed the challenge - the realy good players were the only ones to score well.

 

[Lump]

isn't the point of such pins that you have to hit the right part of the green for them?

the same can apply on many greens ie if you are the wrong side by any distance you face 1 or 3 putts, but rarely 2.

4 or 5 ft from the major slopes sounds about right to me

But with a green that breaks so severely towards the slopes it makes even a shot hit to the right part of the green impossibly hard. On our 18th with a pin set at the front you cannot make a putt from higher up the green unless it hits the hole. Anything putted from the back to the front will role into bunkers protecting the front.

 

[Imurg]

That far away from slopes shouldn't be an issue.
It's when they're on the slopes that annoys me.
Putting a pin halfway down a slope like the 16th at Augusta is laughable. Even at the top of it so if you miss long by a foot it's down to the bottom doesn't make for an enjoyable round.

Monty's ex-caddies told a story about the US Open a few years back. There was a spot on a green 18 inches beyond a hole where, if you placed a ball, the weight of the ball would roll it off the back of the green,

 

[rosecott]

R&A guidance:

An area of two to three feet around the hole should be as level as possible. Effort should be made to ensure that holes are not positioned within three paces of a very severe slope or ridge or of a recently used hole. If the design of the green dictates that the hole be positioned on a slope, the hole should be cut vertically, not with the slope. A player putting from above the hole should be able to stop the ball near the hole

 

[beggsy]

We have the same in competitions lump with 6 easier 6 medium 6 harder pins it is down to the player to help his score by hitting the right shot to find a safe spot on the green

 

[ScienceBoy]

I think pins are only wrong when they are actually on a sever slope. Putting downhill where all you have to do is tap the ball and it rolls 20 foot past is wrong. I once 12 putted such a green after putting my tee shot to 8 feet from 192 yards, if the only way to hole out is through sheer luck then the green or the pin position needs a rethink!

 

[G1BB0]

I am just happy to hit a green in reg, sod worrying about the following putt

 

[garyinderry]

That far away from slopes shouldn't be an issue.
It's when they're on the slopes that annoys me.
,

i know exactly what you mean! your on a green and the hole is on the slope. if you try to sink the putt then you risk rolling down the slope. you are forced to lag it a bit short and waste a shot. really unfair.

 

[rosecott]

i know exactly what you mean! your on a green and the hole is on the slope. if you try to sink the putt then you risk rolling down the slope. you are forced to lag it a bit short and waste a shot. really unfair.

Same for everyone?

 

[garyinderry]

R&A guidance:

An area of two to three feet around the hole should be as level as possible.



the hole is already on a slope with an even bigger slope to go down if you miss the hole. me and my friend stood putting an impossible putt at this location one day. if you dont hit the cup it rolls away down and off the green.

 

[garyinderry]

Same for everyone?

this is all well and good if everyone knew the pin postions like pros and could check the book and say ok i want to keep this to the left as its impossible from the right. we dont see the exact pin positions to some holes untill we get over a hill so they should at least put it in a fair position. so some people get lucky because they thin it to the left side and someone gets punished for playing a great shot to the right side of the green.

 

[ScienceBoy]

I have played greens that even if you are on the correct side, ie below the hole, in dry conditions when the green is playing fast you can putt from 10 feet, miss and the ball will roll back towards you and then to 30 feet away or even off the green and down a hill!

Sometimes it is through poor course design where the green is too sloped and there are few suitable pin positions or its down to poor hole placement.

In such cases what should a club do? Rip up or recontour the green (probably at much cost and lost revenue) or let that green grow more so it is slower? OR just accept the damage to the surface from using the same few positions over and over and over?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

At my level I rarely go looking for the flag. Middle of any of our greens isn't going to leave that long a putt. Even if the flags are in tough positions it is the same for everyone. Surely if you play the course regularly, even if you can't see the bottom of the cup you'll know from its location that there is a big slope nearby and can adjust accordingly

 

[garyinderry]

our pins are not bad at all. just the odd one that is dodgey! i can imagine wat some other courses can be like!

 

[JustOne]

Surely if you play the course regularly, even if you can't see the bottom of the cup you'll know from its location that there is a big slope nearby and can adjust accordingly

I don't agree... you can't adjust for a pin that is 4ft behind a 3ft ridge... if you come up short you're putting up the ridge... if you go long you're putting back at the ridge and risk going down it.

I've payed once where all 18 pins were brutal and once when all the flags were on the front egde to protect the greens... neither is any fun.

 

[garyinderry]

they put our pins barely 3yards on during the winter to save the greens. it can get to you!

 

[Foxholer]

I Used to play at a course on the way home from work where it was announced that the Captain's Day comp would have all pins in the 'most difficult 'legal' position'. When I asked how the comp went, there was much laughter about how there were some Cat 1 players reduced to jibbering wrecks after the relentless pressure.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think that some Green keepers just don't like golf and golfers. They place the pins in the same old difficult positions instead of spreading the pin around the green.

In competitions I think the Club Pro and Captain should mark out the pin positions.

 

[Dave B]

The 9th hole at my local, is a 159 yd par 3 and is a stroke index 12. I'm not sure how the stroke index has been worked out because it is one of the hardest holes on the course due to the pin positions, slopes and bunkers.

The green is raised at the front and surrounded by bunkers to the left and right giving a 10 landing strip into the green.

Because the front of the green is raised it slopes from front to back however to complicate matters it also slopes from right to left.

When the ground is dry you have to pitch onto the R/H side of the 10ft landing strip otherwise you will be in a bunker or on the back of the green. Anything that lands on the green even when it is wet will generally end up at the back of the green giving a 20ft+ put up hill with a left to right camber that will take the ball at least 3ft past the hole in dry conditions.

If you manage to get within two ft of the hole there is still no margin for error as the put has to be inch perfect or you risk being several ft away.

I quite often par the SI 1 hole on the course however I find the the 516 yd par 5, 4th hole, (SI 2), lots of hazards, and the SI 12, 9th the hardest two holes on the course, (I have no idea how they get SI 12).