Revetted Style Bunkers

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Revetted bunkers look far smarter in my opinion.

Is your course potentially putting this in as a "trial/experiment" prior to doing the whole course.

I asked today. We are doing this one on the practice chipping/putting area for a few reasons:

> The existing bunker was small (one player at a time). This new bunker can accommodate three players at once.

> Sand came out and went all over our pretty immaculate practice ground - damaging it, the new bunker will 'contain/restrain' sand much better.

> we get an idea of length of time and cost associated with building it - and maintaining it.

> informs decisions on whether to roll-out across the course (our bunkers are varied and 'problematical').

As mentioned - it's good the club is investing (the members) money in facilities. In last six months or so we have also invested in
> Free range balls for our practice ground (and no need to collect them)
> Three bay cover on practice ground (for wet weather)
> Indoor swing and club/ball fitting studio

And the good news is that at the moment - for the first time in a good few years - our membership is full and likely to be closed with a waiting list. But that depends on our turnover in April - especially as we took on a good number of members on short term deals - let's see if they sign-up for full.

What we have been doing is to attract members on these deals, and at the same time develop our offering on and off the course with the aim of retaining them.

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

I remember seeing ads a while ago in a free golf mag for a company called EcoBunker, and they were artificial i think, maybe its one of those

just noticed this string and they certainly are EcoBunkers - popping up everywhere now!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

just noticed this string and they certainly are EcoBunkers - popping up everywhere now!

I am wondering what advice is being given to clubs in respect of the rules, and the fact that the artificial revetted surrounds to a bunker are an immovable artificial obstruction from which free relief is available - unless - the surround is declared by the club to be an Integral Object from which no relief is provided. Subject of a long debate and discussion here.

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/rake-placement-in-bunker-reader-i-pulled-up-a-fc.101955/

Started as a discussion about issues with rake positioning with our new bunkers - but developed into in discussion about the fact that the revetting was of artifiical turf.

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

It was done by either that company or a similar one. We've done the rest after the first year ourselves and improved on the process.

I am wondering what advice is being given to clubs in respect of the rules, and the fact that the artificial revetted surrounds to a bunker are an immovable artificial obstruction from which free relief is available - unless - the surround is declared by the club to be an Integral Object from which no relief is provided. Subject of a long debate and discussion here.

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/rake-placement-in-bunker-reader-i-pulled-up-a-fc.101955/

Started as a discussion about issues with rake positioning with our new bunkers - but developed into in discussion about the fact that the revetting was of artifiical turf.

Hi, there’s a very simple answer to this: The club simply has a local rule which declares the ecobunker system as an integral part of the course. This overrules any and all objections about artificial surfacing in one swoop. (It is a shame that Wentworth didnt make the same declaration about their undersand rubber bunker liner- that would have prevented the Branden Grace farce from ever occuring).

Have i got evidence of this approach being successful? YES LOTS! One example: Southerndown Gc is a regular final qualifying venue for the Seniors Open when played at RoyalPorthcawl. SGC have 100% ecobunkers. During the final qualifier (administered by the R&A) over 100 of the worlds best 50+ year old golfers played the course. Not one claim for relief in a bunker, hardly any noticed the bunkers were artificial, and those that did were highly complimentary. In fact we got work in the USA off the back of it.
In summary, the rules issue is very very easily addressed. Hope this helps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hi, there’s a very simple answer to this: The club simply has a local rule which declares the ecobunker system as an integral part of the course. This overrules any and all objections about artificial surfacing in one swoop. (It is a shame that Wentworth didnt make the same declaration about their undersand rubber bunker liner- that would have prevented the Branden Grace farce from ever occuring).

Have i got evidence of this approach being successful? YES LOTS! One example: Southerndown Gc is a regular final qualifying venue for the Seniors Open when played at RoyalPorthcawl. SGC have 100% ecobunkers. During the final qualifier (administered by the R&A) over 100 of the worlds best 50+ year old golfers played the course. Not one claim for relief in a bunker, hardly any noticed the bunkers were artificial, and those that did were highly complimentary. In fact we got work in the USA off the back of it.
In summary, the rules issue is very very easily addressed. Hope this helps.

I have to say that we love the new bunkers - no issues or complaints from all I play with and speak with at the club about the revetting being artificial - and they look fabulous

However can I suggest that if you have links with the Ecobunker company, that they provide clubs with guidance on what they need to do in respect of a LR as we had bunkers built and in play with no LR in place. When I pointed out to my club what I was advised of on the other thread (by the rules guys who contribute here) - they seemed completely unaware of the need for the LR. Maybe we were told but thought that a player claiming free relief seemed so outlandish and unlikely that we didn't think it worthwhile. I believe we are now putting one in place. But where we are today I do not think we yet have it there - and so my understanding from the other thread is that I could still claim free relief from the revetted surrounds (see the other thread for that discussion and guidance)

Club Champs next weekend. Wonder if I'd dare if the LR was still not in place, I was doing OK, and the situation arose ...

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

I have to say that we love the new bunkers However can I suggest that if you have links with the Ecobunker company, that they provide clubs with guidance on what they need to do in respect of a LR as we had bunkers built and in play with no LR in place - and when I pointed out to my club what I was advised of on the other thread (by the rules guys who contribute here) - they seemed completely unaware of the need for the LR.

Really pleased to hear that feedback. Which club are you a member of by the way? I value your feedback, and perhaps i will send an e-mail with an attached advisory notice which they could pin to a notice board (or something like that). Yes i am the owner of Ecobunker Ltd, and (for my sins) i’m the person who invented the system.

 

[hovis]

they have installed these rivot/links style bunkers at the belfry. big mistake, huge!!!! they are becoming undercut and collapsing because balls inevitably end up against the lips. the walls are slowly hacked away from the follow through and falling in on themselves. not to mention the constant frustration of finding your ball up against the sides. many people at the agm expreessd their concerns and nothing has been done. we also asked to simply change the way the bunkers are raked to encourage the ball the stay away from the faces but this was also ignored.
this with the fact that they won't level the tee boxes on the derby is why I left

 

[patricks148]

just noticed this string and they certainly are EcoBunkers - popping up everywhere now!

Tain Golf club built their own pactice bunker out of old astro turf from a distance you can't tell the difference, def a good move for a practice bunker

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

they have installed these rivot/links style bunkers at the belfry. big mistake, huge!!!! they are becoming undercut and collapsing because balls inevitably end up against the lips. the walls are slowly hacked away from the follow through and falling in on themselves. not to mention the constant frustration of finding your ball up against the sides. many people at the agm expreessd their concerns and nothing has been done. we also asked to simply changed the way the bunkers are raked to encourage the ball the stay away from the faces but this was also ignored

Hi Hovis, certainly not ecobunkers at the Belfry. If they had consulted us we would have provided guidance and technical support to prevent the sort of things you have described. Hope they give us a call. We have done some very good bunker recovery work at golf clubs where other contractors haven’t provided a proper service.

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

Hi Hovis, certainly not ecobunkers at the Belfry. If they had consulted us we would have provided guidance and technical support to prevent the sort of things you have described. Hope they give us a call. We have done some very good bunker recovery work at golf clubs where other contractors haven’t provided a proper service.

Tain Golf club built their own pactice bunker out of old astro turf from a distance you can't tell the difference, def a good move for a practice bunker

Glad to hear that! Tain bunkers are Ecobunker. Thanks to Ian McLeod

 

[patricks148]

Glad to hear that! Tain bunkers are Ecobunker. Thanks to Ian McLeod

Bunker.... all the others are real

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

 

[Foxholer]

they have installed these rivot/links style bunkers at the belfry. big mistake, huge!!!! they are becoming undercut and collapsing because balls inevitably end up against the lips. the walls are slowly hacked away from the follow through and falling in on themselves. not to mention the constant frustration of finding your ball up against the sides. many people at the agm expreessd their concerns and nothing has been done. we also asked to simply change the way the bunkers are raked to encourage the ball the stay away from the faces but this was also ignored.
this with the fact that they won't level the tee boxes on the derby is why I left

Just to hijack this thread slightly....I'm very laid back about Tee maintenance, as long as they are mown, tees moved sufficiently and relatively flat - they don't need to be perfectly so. But I was discussing something (I think how the new bentgrass clone was performing) with the ownership and he commented that the tees had been sanded and tined. when I told him of my attitude to Teeing Areas, he stated that tees took/cost virtually the same to maintain as greens! I was a bit surprised at that (I don't damage them, as I use Driver or Rescue on all but 1!). I guess there's a 'presentation' element that's important to them, but I'd sooner see bunkers maintained than Tees.

Back to topic....We have 1 hole with 3 'deep' bunkers in front of a raised green. These have recently been converted to revetted ones and I believe similar work will be done one equivalent ones elsewhere on the course - but others left as they are. Bunker condition/maintenence is, to me, are the 'relatively poorest' part of my club's maintenance, but I recognise how expensive it can be!

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

Just to hijack this thread slightly....I'm very laid back about Tee maintenance, as long as they are mown, tees moved sufficiently and relatively flat - they don't need to be perfectly so. But I was discussing something (I think how the new bentgrass clone was performing) with the ownership and he commented that the tees had been sanded and tined. when I told him of my attitude to Teeing Areas, he stated that tees took/cost virtually the same to maintain as greens! I was a bit surprised at that (I don't damage them, as I use Driver or Rescue on all but 1!). I guess there's a 'presentation' element that's important to them, but I'd sooner see bunkers maintained than Tees.

Back to topic....We have 1 hole with 3 'deep' bunkers in front of a raised green. These have recently been converted to revetted ones and I believe similar work will be done one equivalent ones elsewhere on the course - but others left as they are. Bunker condition/maintenence is, to me, are the 'relatively poorest' part of my club's maintenance, but I recognise how expensive it can be!

Foxholer, can you post photos of the 3 bunkers you refer to? We love to keep in touch with what clubs are doing and seeing examples of good work.

 

[KenL]

Revetted bunkers look far smarter in my opinion.

Is your course potentially putting this in as a "trial/experiment" prior to doing the whole course.

They look great when first done but not so much when the face starts to break down.

We have 100 bunkers and they have to re-do at least 20 every winter.

 

[patricks148]

They look great when first done but not so much when the face starts to break down.

We have 100 bunkers and they have to re-do at least 20 every winter.

We replaced 30 greenside ones with a slightly different style to the old ones, much easier to get out and the revetting is on a few is deeper but at a different angle, none so far are damaged, unlike the old ones that as you say needed replaving every two years.

 

[Foxholer]

They look great when first done but not so much when the face starts to break down.

We have 100 bunkers and they have to re-do at least 20 every winter.

So a 5 year life. That's fairly decent performance imo.

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

So a 5 year life. That's fairly decent performance imo.

To me,( a civil engineer used to designing features with a minimum 100 year design life ) a 5 year life of a golf bunker is unacceptable. If i was a golf club owner, treasurer or manager i would not permit this and would seek better solutions. That is why i invented ecobunker. We provide a warranty for 20 years. In days of golf course austerity, it is essential IMO to invest in sustainable , low maintenance products.
Read more at https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/revetted-style-bunkers.89803/page-2#iF172qk4gCb9icHo.99

 

[Foxholer]

To me,( a civil engineer used to designing features with a minimum 100 year design life ) a 5 year life of a golf bunker is unacceptable. If i was a golf club owner, treasurer or manager i would not permit this and would seek better solutions. That is why i invented ecobunker. We provide a warranty for 20 years. In days of golf course austerity, it is essential IMO to invest in sustainable , low maintenance products.
Read more at https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/revetted-style-bunkers.89803/page-2#iF172qk4gCb9icHo.99

Artificial Grass....Eco Friendly? While there are definitely environmental concerns with 'naural grass' as well, until AG can be recycled at the end of its useful life, I'm not a fan!

Can you detail what's actual 'Eco' about your product - over the entire life cycle?

 

[EcoBunkerRich]

Artificial Grass....Eco Friendly? While there are definitely environmental concerns with 'naural grass' as well, until AG can be recycled at the end of its useful life, I'm not a fan!

Can you detail what's actual 'Eco' about your product - over the entire life cycle?

Thats an easy one; all the artificial grass used by ecobunker is 100% recycled. We use the worn out turf from old football and hockey fields. To date we have diverted nearly 10,000 tonnes of waste from landfill sites. Thats pretty ECO!