Relief in casual water

[chrisd]

So, playing at home in a club league match, on our smallest par 3, I missed the green left and ended up with a tree between me and the pin. My ball was sitting in casual water and I asked for relief and dropped my ball at the nearest point of relief not nearer the hole where I had full relief.

Opponents player 1 comes over and says that as I was behind a tree i have to stay behind the tree but can go back as far as i like, player 2 backs him and says that is how they play it at their home course. I confirm that the rule is NPR + up to one club length.

We halve the hole in 4, but had they stuck to their guns would I have been right to play it my way, them call a dispute to settle afterwards, and if i were wrong they win the hole, where had I accepted their definition and played it their way, would l lose the hole even if i halved and called a dispute?

 

[fundy]

You know the rules, tell them to stop being stupid and trying to use made up rules they may play in their roll ups and move on mate! if not tell them you will concede the hole if they can show you that rule in the rule book (wasnt april 1st a while ago?)

 

[doublebogey7]

You were not wrong so the first scenario is not applicable. You are right though had you registered a dispute following their version of the rules the committee would have ruled that you followed he wrong procedure and therefore you lose the hole. Not sure though why anyone would register a dispute in these circumstances, as you could not never win.

 

[chrisd]

You were not wrong so the first scenario is not applicable. You are right though had you registered a dispute following their version of the rules the committee would have ruled that you followed he wrong procedure and therefore you lose the hole. Not sure though why anyone would register a dispute in these circumstances, as you could not never win.

I agree and was adamant that I was correct about the relief.

 

[chrisd]

You know the rules, tell them to stop being stupid and trying to use made up rules they may play in their roll ups and move on mate! if not tell them you will concede the hole if they can show you that rule in the rule book (wasnt april 1st a while ago?)

I had a scenario in an away game with one of these guys a while back where he said I broke 3 rules on a hole. He took the pee afterwards at dinner. I cut and pasted each of the rules on the 3 matters and mailed them to him the next day but received no apology!

 

[fundy]

I had a scenario in an away game with one of these guys a while back where he said I broke 3 rules on a hole. He took the pee afterwards at dinner. I cut and pasted each of the rules on the 3 matters and mailed them to him the next day but received no apology!

Ridiculous Chris, funny thing is i expect they do it every game and their club mates get more and more embarrassed every time, then they feel the need to go bigger and better every time. Seriously not worth wasting your energies on mate. It's actually quite sad the extents some people will go to, even within our great game. Thankfully they're the minority. Keep doing you

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Out of interest, does anyone carry a copy of the rules in their bag. I have one in a sandwich bag (to keep it dry) and it found it is the easiest way of resolving these silly arguments when clearly as in the OP's case, it's a clear cut procedure to proceed and the opposition have a made up version they insist is correct. It's not something I've done for long although did do it some time ago, until a copy got soaked in a dodgy old bag and was unusable, but decided to redo on the back of the number of similar threads and also the scary one about unwritten rules that highlighted exactly what sort of made up rules people understand as being correct

 

[FuzzyDuck]

I have the R&A Rules of Golf app on my phone.

 

[chrisd]

Out of interest, does anyone carry a copy of the rules in their bag. I have one in a sandwich bag (to keep it dry) and it found it is the easiest way of resolving these silly arguments when clearly as in the OP's case, it's a clear cut procedure to proceed and the opposition have a made up version they insist is correct. It's not something I've done for long although did do it some time ago, until a copy got soaked in a dodgy old bag and was unusable, but decided to redo on the back of the number of similar threads and also the scary one about unwritten rules that highlighted exactly what sort of made up rules people understand as being correct

I did carry the book for a while but on the odd occasion that I needed to use it I found finding the rule very difficult when needed quickly. I remember trying to show someone that you can ground your club on a bridge over a hazard and I think I'd still be there now if we hadn't agreed to disagree in a friendly match.

 

[rulefan]

I did carry the book for a while but on the odd occasion that I needed to use it I found finding the rule very difficult when needed quickly. I remember trying to show someone that you can ground your club on a bridge over a hazard and I think I'd still be there now if we hadn't agreed to disagree in a friendly match.

I'm afraid you would never have found it in your Rules book as it is in the Decisions 13-4/30.

The good news is that it won't matter next year.

 

[chrisd]

I'm afraid you would never have found it in your Rules book as it is in the Decisions 13-4/30.

The good news is that it won't matter next year.

Edited. Thanks, I see the guy regularly and will show him

 

[woofers]

I also have a copy of the Rule Book in a plastic bag. It can be very effective to bring out and ask 'show me' when confronted with assertions that you know are wrong.

You say these guys have caused you grief in previous matches, which are in a competitive league (?), perhaps a quiet word with their Captain might put things in order.

 

[Colin L]

So, playing at home in a club league match, on our smallest par 3, I missed the green left and ended up with a tree between me and the pin. My ball was sitting in casual water and I asked for relief and dropped my ball at the nearest point of relief not nearer the hole where I had full relief.

Opponents player 1 comes over and says that as I was behind a tree i have to stay behind the tree but can go back as far as i like, player 2 backs him and says that is how they play it at their home course. I confirm that the rule is NPR + up to one club length.

We halve the hole in 4, but had they stuck to their guns would I have been right to play it my way, them call a dispute to settle afterwards, and if i were wrong they win the hole, where had I accepted their definition and played it their way, would l lose the hole even if i halved and called a dispute?

Just read through this thread and thought to make it clear that you do not ask your opponents if you can take relief. It is up to you to play according to the rule as you understand it and for your opponents to make a claim if they don't agree with what you do.

 

[chrisd]

I also have a copy of the Rule Book in a plastic bag. It can be very effective to bring out and ask 'show me' when confronted with assertions that you know are wrong.

You say these guys have caused you grief in previous matches, which are in a competitive league (?), perhaps a quiet word with their Captain might put things in order.

The guy in question was their Club Chairman. I think that they genuinely didn't know the rule and accepted my firm explanation that I knew the rule and I was going to do my relief and it was up to them to challenge it if they so wished. It was the subject of conversation after teeing off the next hole with my partner who confirmed to them that I was correct

Just read through this thread and thought to make it clear that you do not ask your opponents if you can take relief. It is up to you to play according to the rule as you understand it and for your opponents to make a claim if they don't agree with what you do.

I think I just said that I was taking relief for casual water and said "ok?" in case they wanted to observe my action, and that I had chosen the NPR correctly. They only queried me after I played my chip on.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Out of interest, does anyone carry a copy of the rules in their bag. I have one in a sandwich bag (to keep it dry) and it found it is the easiest way of resolving these silly arguments when clearly as in the OP's case, it's a clear cut procedure to proceed and the opposition have a made up version they insist is correct. It's not something I've done for long although did do it some time ago, until a copy got soaked in a dodgy old bag and was unusable, but decided to redo on the back of the number of similar threads and also the scary one about unwritten rules that highlighted exactly what sort of made up rules people understand as being correct

Yep me too.

 

[jim8flog]

I refereed a match once and got a bit of telling of from the Office for allowing the clubs decisions book to get waterlogged.

Personally I only carry the rules section of the rules book with all other stuff cut out to make it smaller and lighter.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So, playing at home in a club league match, on our smallest par 3, I missed the green left and ended up with a tree between me and the pin. My ball was sitting in casual water and I asked for relief and dropped my ball at the nearest point of relief not nearer the hole where I had full relief.

Opponents player 1 comes over and says that as I was behind a tree i have to stay behind the tree but can go back as far as i like, player 2 backs him and says that is how they play it at their home course. I confirm that the rule is NPR + up to one club length.

We halve the hole in 4, but had they stuck to their guns would I have been right to play it my way, them call a dispute to settle afterwards, and if i were wrong they win the hole, where had I accepted their definition and played it their way, would l lose the hole even if i halved and called a dispute?

Good golly miss molly - where did he get that from LOL

See what happens when you can't tell the difference between being in a bunker and being behind a tree...

Of course there might well have been much debate of our OP's ball was in a bush and under normal circumstances unplayable - but in taking a stance as if to try and hit the ball our OP found himself standing in casual water - and the nearest point of full relief from the casual water meant taking the ball out of the bush and dropping it in the clear...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yep me too.

#Merulestoo

 

[chrisd]

Good golly miss molly - where did he get that from LOL

See what happens when you can't tell the difference between being in a bunker and being behind a tree...

Of course there might well have been much debate of our OP's ball was in a bush and under normal circumstances unplayable - but in taking a stance as if to try and hit the ball our OP found himself standing in casual water - and the nearest point of full relief from the casual water meant taking the ball out of the bush and dropping it in the clear...

Both the ball, and I, were in casual water but I had an easy shot available, on the green but not near the hole. They clearly thought I should play stroke and distance, but I'll certainly stand correction, I said stroke and distance drops are under penalty whereas NPR for casual water relief is not.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Both the ball, and I, were in casual water but I had an easy shot available, on the green but not near the hole. They clearly thought I should play stroke and distance, but I'll certainly stand correction, I said stroke and distance drops are under penalty whereas NPR for casual water relief is not.

You did the right thing. Just one of these aspects of knowing the rules that can give you an advantage. Indeed the same rule that you used to your advantage could just as easily have worked to your detriment.

On one of our holes that gets very wet if you put your tee shot down the RHS you will always have a very difficult line to the flag - and if far enough right having to play out of first cut rough or deep rough. But all down the RHS where drives finish can get very waterlogged at times, and your nearest point of full relief from casual water can often be in the middle of the fairway - from where the shot in is a lot easier. KtG. :thup: