Reducing carbon emissions

[PNWokingham]

I think the problem is, if different people keep telling us the same things, it gets kind of boring, especially if they are 3 or 4 years out of date. It's often just a case of bringing them up to date with what's going on in a fast moving industry.

Yes we know they are expensive, yes, some people can't charge at home, we need more chargers and for some the range just isn't enough.
But the clever people know all this and have done for years and are working hard to improve things.

It will take time and right now, an EV won't suit everyone, but the change is happening faster than many are aware.

I'm sure people will continue to buy ICE cars for years to come but eventually it will make more financial sense to get an EV.

Think of the first computers, microwaves, flat screen tvs, mobiles, they were all very expensive when they first came out but quickly became affordable for everyone.
You only have to look at the car adverts on TV to see what the future holds and if cost is your main concern, take a look at what is coming from China.



You only have to glance across the pond to see that that is happening out in the open.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/20...worth-spurs-questions-energy-policy-position/

The only difference over here is the MPs are more sneaky.

I don't disagree with most of what you are saying Bob. The change is here to stay and the pace is picking up. But there a still a very large number of people who will not be able to buy into it for many years. That can be due to costs in many cases and practicality in others. I live in a flat. 12 flats here. We cannot move forward with painting garages, let alone expanding the car park. No way in the world I can ever see everyone agreeing the extra costs of tens of thousands to add chargers outside as well. That will have to wait until the next generation. Many others will be in the same place. And that is the same issue for plug in hybrids. I will be getting another AMG before an electric car!

My issue - and quite a few others - was the attitude of a certain person dissing and patronising people who were also, on the most part, on the same page. We don't need the same person posting these supercilious replies dozens of times a day saying the same thing.

 

[Jimaroid]

Yes it is indeed her choice. ... I play golf with her husband and he was surprised when I told him about the low range. He just went guess she will nick the ugly car back off me then lol

Two things.

1. So what? Her money, her choice. What business is it of yours or ours? The fact that they're on the EV ladder is more important towards the end goals of carbon reduction isn't it?

2. Again your sneering hypocrisy stinks. You're laughing at their need to switch between an EV and ICE based on circumstantial travel requirements. How is this different to your own, often trumpted, needs to run a fugly diesel due to your circumstantial travel requirements.

You need to take a good look at yourself before you criticise others.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Two things.

1. So what? Her money, her choice. What business is it of yours or ours? The fact that they're on the EV ladder is more important towards the end goals of carbon reduction isn't it?

2. Again your sneering hypocrisy stinks. You're laughing at their need to switch between an EV and ICE based on circumstantial travel requirements. How is this different to your own, often trumpted, needs to run a fugly diesel due to your circumstantial travel requirements.

You need to take a good look at yourself before you criticise others.

Look, I'll draw a line here. I clearly have posted what I meant wrong here ... It's great that she's getting electric. Fair play .. it's just she has been sold a car that wont suit her commute

Hopefully we will get chargers installed soon and that will be the end of it and we can pay to charge whilst at work then it's a mute point

Sorry I don't mean anymore by it.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I've just looked on autotrader, the cheapest Tesla 3 on there at the moment is a whopping £37,990. That puts them way out of range for the average person.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I've just looked on autotrader, the cheapest Tesla 3 on there at the moment is a whopping £37,990. That puts them way out of range for the average person.

I was just looking on AT for a hybrid. But the cheapest McLaren P1 is £1.1 million. That puts hybrids out of reach for me.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think that is most likely aswell

Like I said before I see price per mile but tax on fuel won't change u can bet .. so petrol will be taxed twice to try and get people to move

Even tho petrol you already taxed twice ofc

I think it’s only a matter of time before electricity is taxed in the same way petrol is. Whether that’s time related (so those cheaper night time units are gone) or just a basic flat rate increase on it all, it has to so the Govt can make up for the lost revenue from petrol and derv and the increasing use of electric powered non 4 wheel transport that’s becoming popular now.

I also see the latest trend is “cable snatching” . I’ve come across 4 people in the last fortnight who have had their charging cable taken or damaged.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I was just looking on AT for a hybrid. But the cheapest McLaren P1 is £1.1 million. That puts hybrids out of reach for me.

Waste of time unless you carry your clubs in a pencil bag.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I think it’s only a matter of time before electricity is taxed in the same way petrol is. Whether that’s time related (so those cheaper night time units are gone) or just a basic flat rate increase on it all, it has to so the Govt can make up for the list revenue from petrol and derv and the increasing use of electric powered non 4 wheel transport that’s becoming popular now.

I also see the latest trend is “cable snatching” . I’ve come across 4 people in the last fortnight who have had their charging cable taken or damaged.

Damaged I can see but taken? How on earth? Once the car is locked the cable gets a bolt through it like a deadlock on a hand brake

I don't see electric tax. Night time tariffs will always be about to A get people away from charging peak times and B you have people on storage heaters / battery packs who will fill up and night etc and they will always be available in some form

Any taxation will have to be on miles driven as any other kind would affect someone who doesn't even own a car

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Damaged I can see but taken? How on earth? Once the car is locked the cable gets a bolt through it like a deadlock on a hand brake

I don't see electric tax. Night time tariffs will always be about to A get people away from charging peak times and B you have people on storage heaters / battery packs who will fill up and night etc and they will always be available in some form

Any taxation will have to be on miles driven as any other kind would affect someone who doesn't even own a car

It doesn’t just have to be an EV car they own, electric bikes are everywhere now along with those scooters, mopeds, skateboards and mono wheel things.
The Govt brought in a levy for smart meters whether you wanted one or not. They will find a way to charge extra for all electric because they need the revenue.

 

[bobmac]

I think the fairest way would be a charge per mile, so when you get your car serviced or MOTd, they note the mileage and send you the bill

 

[PNWokingham]

It doesn’t just have to be an EV car they own, electric bikes are everywhere now along with those scooters, mopeds, skateboards and mono wheel things.
The Govt brought in a levy for smart meters whether you wanted one or not. They will find a way to charge extra for all electric because they need the revenue.

the revenue from petrol and dieel sales is huge and electric cars are starting to make a notable dent. I suspect we will have a wholsale change in the way all gthese taxes and road tax is done. It will all go to pay as go road taxing. Probably with different tarrifs per mile for different roads at different times. probably with an overlay for emissions. I would think all cars will have to have a smart meter

 

[Deleted member 21784]

It doesn’t just have to be an EV car they own, electric bikes are everywhere now along with those scooters, mopeds, skateboards and mono wheel things.
The Govt brought in a levy for smart meters whether you wanted one or not. They will find a way to charge extra for all electric because they need the revenue.

Really don't see it

Imagine it.. someone can't afford an EV but has just managed to get electric heat pump to get away from gas as we have to etc

So we all use more electric because we have to

But then people end up not heating homes because it's costing too much because of the tax

They get taxed on petrol but then taxed on turning the kettle on aswell

It will be a massive vote loser


Tax by roads used and milage done

Bill at end of year . Cars have chips now report milage

Mine tells vauxhall how many miles I've done

How long before they go ok then £200 tax for that

 

[PNWokingham]

Electric cars are the future. But for a car nut, they are totally boring. It is the end of a passion for cars. They will be a commodity to me. You can keep your tesla's - i will take one of these please!!

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayma...he-718-cayman-gt4-rs-revealed-with-gt3-engine

 

[bobmac]

Electric cars are the future. But for a car nut, they are totally boring. It is the end of a passion for cars. They will be a commodity to me. You can keep your tesla's - i will take one of these please!!

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayma...he-718-cayman-gt4-rs-revealed-with-gt3-engine

You can drive to work Mon-Fri in your EV and enjoy your passion at the weekends.
When cars first came out, people said that's the end of the horse and yet, we still have horses.

 

[Jimaroid]

I can't see how night time tariffs will continue to exist when the energy grid is becoming globally connected and demands normalise across 24hours.

Night time tariffs only existed and are only feasible because there was a surplus of energy within a local grid. As demand goes up and moves across timezones, there isn't going to be a surplus.

I think that may be one of the factors catching out a number of energy suppliers in how they're managing their wholesale purchasing.

 

[sweaty sock]

Theres also a reason night time charging is cheap, its because so little energy is used by the population. The average household uses about 30 kWh per day. Taking numbers for this thread, say a leaf needs a half charge per night, thats 20kWh. Electric companies will NOT charge the vastly reduced rate if the consumption is nearly even day and night. So if mass adoption happens, prices are going up. Current EVs are around 6p a mile, compared to around 15p a mile for petrol. Wont take much for it to even out if adoption increaes and prices for EVs stay elevated....

Like what Jimaroid said..

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Theres also a reason night time charging is cheap, its because so little energy is used by the population. The average household uses about 30 kWh per day. Taking numbers for this thread, say a leaf needs a half charge per night, thats 20kWh. Electric companies will NOT charge the vastly reduced rate if the consumption is nearly even day and night. So if mass adoption happens, prices are going up. Current EVs are around 6p a mile, compared to around 15p a mile for petrol. Wont take much for it to even out if adoption increaes and prices for EVs stay elevated....

Like what Jimaroid said..

Even if you get rid of the night rate the taxation side is minimal change

The majority of the rise goes to the electric company as the tax is still 5%

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I can't see how night time tariffs will continue to exist when the energy grid is becoming globally connected and demands normalise across 24hours.

Night time tariffs only existed and are only feasible because there was a surplus of energy within a local grid. As demand goes up and moves across timezones, there isn't going to be a surplus.

I think that may be one of the factors catching out a number of energy suppliers in how they're managing their wholesale purchasing.

They have to be careful how they go about it all

Push too hard and it will just force people to buy the home batteries ( costly ATM but ways around it and will come down#) and fitting them then using solar to fill those batteries and run their house and car grid free

That's a massive loss of tax

That's why I see the per mile tax as easier to police and even catches those who do that

#telsa want £9k fitted for 15kw battery that you fit and charge etc etc , guy who I meant at work once he bought a battery from a written off BMW 30kw for 5k .. he is a sparky and connected it to his consumer unit with an inverter that cost £600

He charges at night for 5p then runs his whole house all day

If the charges come in on night rate he just goes solar and feeds into the battieres then into is house

 

[sweaty sock]

Even if you get rid of the night rate the taxation side is minimal change

The majority of the rise goes to the electric company as the tax is still 5%

Who mentioned tax? Taking Tide household rates as an example nighttime rates are 5p, day rates are more than double at 12p and peak rates between 4 and 6pm are 25p nearly 5 times the night rate.

If night usage significantly increases then the 5p rate will go to at least 12p, more than doubling the changing cost?

 

[GreiginFife]

This debate took place on the EV thread a while back. Prices for electricity WILL go up as demand WILL go up. It's simple capitalist economics 101.

This is going to happen, we have to deal with it just like we have to deal with cost of living increases in all quarters of life. In most cases it will level itself out for many when we go from petrol/diesel to electric. Personally I'd be fine with that. The end-goal isn't for it to be cheaper after all, its for it to be cleaner. So if my cost was 15p per mile and it stayed at 15p per mile rather than 6p then I am no worse off.

Initial affordability remains a big hurdle for the lowest income households (of which, we are reminded on a regular basis, there are many millions) where a cheap £1k gas guzzler will always be a more attractive option than a £5k "cheap" EV. Even if we can promise that running it will be cheaper.

The issue of electric cars being less engaging to drive is another matter completely and one that manufacturers will need to think about in order to make their product more enticing. There are people who say modern performance cars are less engaging because of things like power steering making it "too easy" in tight corners. This is just the evolution of the car.