Realistically... will amateur big participation events/opens be able to take place this year?

[Deleted member 18588]

Not at every club - in fact, far far from every club. Whilst it’s true that a lot will/would be massively affected a lot could still profit from opens without the hospitality side of it.

Have you ever been involved with the finances of a club? I have.

Member's clubs are usually very reliant upon their bar and catering operations.

If not then the top clubs will likely have a high level of visitor's green fees.

Either way most clubs budget for higher than usual F&B sales to make running opens feasible.

Committees are unlikely to alienate their members by taking the course out of play for the day if the event doesn't generate income.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have you ever been involved with the finances of a club? I have.

Member's clubs are usually very reliant upon their bar and catering operations.

If not then the top clubs will likely have a high level of visitor's green fees.

Either way most clubs budget for higher than usual F&B sales to make running opens feasible.

Committees are unlikely to alienate their members by taking the course out of play for the day if the event doesn't generate income.

Depends on if the catering is in house or franchise

A lot of clubs have moved to Franchise catering so that someone else takes on the financial risk

Opens run at low cost to clubs - they get a full day of green fees in , that generates the income hence why the price for most are significantly lower than the green fee

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Depends on if the catering is in house or franchise

A lot of clubs have moved to Franchise catering so that someone else takes on the financial risk

Opens run at low cost to clubs - they get a full day of green fees in , that generates the income

If the green fee element of the cost for entry and the bar and catering sales are not significantly higher than a usual day then members (certainly at my Club) would very soon be telling the Committee "Thanks but no thanks!"

 

[Diamond]

2 balls?

I haven’t seen any open comps that are 2 balls but if there is then yes.

 

[Boomy]

Have you ever been involved with the finances of a club? I have.

Member's clubs are usually very reliant upon their bar and catering operations.

If not then the top clubs will likely have a high level of visitor's green fees.

Either way most clubs budget for higher than usual F&B sales to make running opens feasible.

Committees are unlikely to alienate their members by taking the course out of play for the day if the event doesn't generate income.

Yes, yes I have as an active committee member at my previous club.

I am also a sales manager at a national fresh food organisation which supplies a lot of independent catering businesses based at golf clubs.

My experience of this comes from seeing it first hand at clubs and from the business side of it.

You seem to be basing your whole case on your club and how it is ran. Not all are the same.

Phil is exactly right in what he says!

 

[upsidedown]

Indeed, we are in the challenging position of replacing very good and well thought of caterers who were franchised and we know Opens were a huge day for them in terms of revenue and they/we had many returning guests who love coming back for the food.

 

[USER1999]

Given a post lock down demand for tee times, based on the last two times, for many clubs (especially those in the SE) taking a day out for an open may be a step too far for the members. It would be at mine, for sure.

 

[Boomy]

Indeed, we are in the challenging position of replacing very good and well thought of caterers who were franchised and we know Opens were a huge day for them in terms of revenue and they/we had many returning guests who love coming back for the food.

Yes indeed, it’s really sad seeing all the businesses struggling and disappearing due to the pandemic - very sad indeed. it’s going to be a very different landscape on the other side.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes, yes I have as an active committee member at my previous club.

I am also a sales manager at a national fresh food organisation which supplies a lot of independent catering businesses based at golf clubs.

My experience of this comes from seeing it first hand at clubs and from the business side of it.

You seem to be basing your whole case on your club and how it is ran. Not all are the same.

Phil is exactly right in what he says!

My club has operated the catering on a franchise basis for a number of years.

Successful opens are very important to the franchisee and if they are not part of the club calendar it is the franchisee that suffers.

But the club also suffers as many clubs that operate catering on the franchise model keep the bar operation in house. A full day open can generate the equivalent of an extra weekend's sales, particularly as full price will be charged to the visitors rather than members discount.

Without these boosts there is no real attraction to the Club in running an open event.

Particularly this year with the likely demand for start times from the members whenever this lockdown finally ends.

Of course some proprietary clubs may see things differently but members clubs will feel the pressure from those that have paid their subs and not been allowed to play.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You only have to see the uptake on a lot of the Opens to see how many clubs are still running them

I have entered 7 so far and everyone is nearly full - there is potential for the first couple to have no food but it’s still going to go ahead

If it’s a members course and they have a full open at for example £60 each that’s potentially upwards of £6000 going into the club coffers just from the entrance fee alone - some comes with a sandwich or breakfast bab etc but some dont

How many club are going to bring in that sort of green fee and money on the bar over a regular day ? I would say very little. There would be disruption for the members but that’s at every club with an Open and no doubt the extra money coming in will help offset costs

Opens aren’t fully reliant on the bar and food service - they can run independently, whilst not idea for everyone it’s certainly a model that still works and some clubs would still look to provide some level of service within any restrictions.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Not very many clubs charging £60 per player for entry and, in any event, the fee has also to cover prizes.

If clubhouse bars are open I can foresee clubs continuing to run their opens but if they are reliant solely upon entry fees it will be very difficult to placate members who may well be struggling for tee times themselves.

 

[upsidedown]

Just checked our Seniors Open in July and 112 booked in so far @ £20pwe head, no food in entry but hopefully available on the day

 

[Golfnut1957]

You only have to see the uptake on a lot of the Opens to see how many clubs are still running them

I have entered 7 so far and everyone is nearly full - there is potential for the first couple to have no food but it’s still going to go ahead

If it’s a members course and they have a full open at for example £60 each that’s potentially upwards of £6000 going into the club coffers just from the entrance fee alone - some comes with a sandwich or breakfast bab etc but some dont

How many club are going to bring in that sort of green fee and money on the bar over a regular day ? I would say very little. There would be disruption for the members but that’s at every club with an Open and no doubt the extra money coming in will help offset costs

Opens aren’t fully reliant on the bar and food service - they can run independently, whilst not idea for everyone it’s certainly a model that still works and some clubs would still look to provide some level of service within any restrictions.

Clubs can plan for and organise anything they like, but they won't be happening unless there is a significant policy change prior to their due date.

Not an original thought from me but something I read "lets hope that the governments new policy is to over state the situation and under promise the outcome". Otherwise, we are in for a long hard year.

Me? I'd be happy with a 9 hole 2 ball right now.