Re Winter h/cs

[evahakool]

A few weeks ago i shot a gross 82 of 21 h/c,the day after our season officialy finnished, played of the yellows sss is is 69 par 71, and it was played of the full course,this was the start of our winter comp.

I was cut to 17.7 in our winter comp.This cut only applies to our winter comp. and i will go back up to 21 at the start of another season.

I asked our h/c sec. if there is any way this could count for my official h/c and the anwser was no.

I have looked on the congo website and rule 23 seems to say clubs can have a general review in March, and under some cases can apply a h/c cut in genaral play.I couldnt find any ruling that applys to winter comps.

Does anyone know the correct ruling for this? and should i have another word with the h/c sec.

 

[john0]

Just wait and get cut after you win the first comp of the new season, simple

 

[evahakool]

That would be good.But after playing all year was dissapointed i started at 20 and finished the season on 21,typical my best round ever came one day after our season finished.

 

[JustOne]

I asked our h/c sec. if there is any way this could count for my official h/c and the anwser was no.

It's ridiculous sometimes how club sec's act like 'head teacher', the only person it would be hurting is you. You'll be pleased to know that I'll even let you play off scratch if we ever meet!

 

[Imurg]

If that's the way they want to play it then just keep improving over the winter and win the first few comps of next season. You've done your bit. If they wont cut you that's their problem

 

[chrisd]

Clubs do have a general review in the winter months. Players who are clearly playing nowhere near their handicap can be adjusted either up or down. It is unlikely that a player who plays in a number of competitions and records scores averaging around their handicap will be changed and a general play adjustment will only occur if fairly exceptional reasons exist - say someone who hasn't played within 15 shots of their h/cap all year.

I find it strange that a competition played on a measured course, with no temporary greens or mats under medal rules was "non qualifying" for handicap purposes and, further, that a temporary adjustment can be imposed. I would certainly be asking about the validity of that decision

Chris

 

[MashieNiblick]

This must be very frustrating.

As I understand it there are 3 situations in which handicaps are adjusted.

Score in a qualifying competion.
General Play revisions.
Annual review.

First one automatically generates plus .1, or a cut, if the score calls for it under the congu regs. The other 2 I believe are more subjective and discretionary but are looking for patterns and trends rather than one-off rounds.

I've never heard of temporary cuts or special handicap arrangements for winter.

I have heard that some clubs designate all comps non-qualifying over the winter. I assume there is some provision to allow this. I would think otherwise this ought to be only for some specific reason, e.g. if tees are up or there are temp greens (so it isn't over measured course).

I think one issue is that probably once it's designated as non-qualifying then non-qualifying it is (e.g. no css calculated, etc.) and you have to rely on one of the other 2 processes to get a cut. So it might be the question is, was the h'cap sec right to designate it as a non-qualifier?

I'm not a h'cap expert but there are some on here who are and it would be useful to hear their views.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Your handicap Sec seems very keen on the rules so perhaps he should be asked to explain why, if the course you played was SSS rated and you played the full course it wasn't run as a qualifying competition. CONGU specifically say that every effort should be made to run all competitions as handicap qualifiers if possible. Annual review or general play will only adjust if there is good reason too and one round isn't enough.

On another point I think the concept of a "winter handicap" just confuses everyone. Easier to just dock the winners 2 points from the next competition etc. Let's face it we're not playing for the town hall clock in winter, they are just fun comps on the whole.

 

[Alex1975]

This must be very frustrating.

As I understand it there are 3 situations in which handicaps are adjusted.

Score in a qualifying competion.
General Play revisions.
Annual review.

First one automatically generates plus .1, or a cut, if the score calls for it under the congu regs. The other 2 I believe are more subjective and discretionary but are looking for patterns and trends rather than one-off rounds.

I've never heard of temporary cuts or special handicap arrangements for winter.

I have heard that some clubs designate all comps non-qualifying over the winter. I assume there is some provision to allow this. I would think otherwise this ought to be only for some specific reason, e.g. if tees are up or there are temp greens (so it isn't over measured course).

I think one issue is that probably once it's designated as non-qualifying then non-qualifying it is (e.g. no css calculated, etc.) and you have to rely on one of the other 2 processes to get a cut. So it might be the question is, was the h'cap sec right to designate it as a non-qualifier?

I'm not a h'cap expert but there are some on here who are and it would be useful to hear their views.

I was lead to believe that as a cat3 I could hand a card in any time? is that true?

Also a little more on topic, I have not been told anything about the end of my season, so how do I know when it is and what is the upshot of it?

thx


Alex

 

[Parmo]

I thought only obvious bandits got cut at the annual review?

I was lead to believe that as a cat3 I could hand a card in any time? is that true?

Only in club Qual comps

 

[stevek1969]

Never understood how you can have 2 handicaps ,your handicap is your handicap surely ,summer or winter.

I had a similar situation 2 years ago playing in the winter stableford where i had some really good scores,we played full course so its measured with a standard scratch the Managing Secreatry said they were going to cut me , i didn't have a problem with it,then he changed his mind for an unknown reason then said he didn't make that statement at all,now this was said in front of aleast 6 guys.

Some of these guys shouldn't be in the job there in and your right they treat you like a little kid and he's the head master,one word for those guys "WALLOPER"

 

[evahakool]

Thanks for all the replies gents.

Think the answer is to have a good round at the start of the season and not the end.

I feel i will just have to accept this as you dont seem to get cut after one round in a winter comp.As this is a "rolling" comp. between end of season and xmas where you can play as many rounds as you want and your best 4 stableford rounds count.As the course will be shortend with some temp. tees and greens i can understand how you cannot count this for h/c reductions.

 

[RGDave]

I asked our h/c sec. if there is any way this could count for my official h/c and the anwser was no.

Just goes to show. All our players continue to get cuts and 0.1s over the winter. The course has a set length and a set SSS/CSS. I have had plenty of cuts over the winter. Personally, I think it's wrong, because the course is SO much easier for me for at least 4 decent reasons.
I'm in two minds t.b.h.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I was lead to believe that as a cat3 I could hand a card in any time? is that true?

I think anyone apart from cat1 can hand in a card at anytime subject to some rules but that any resulting adjustment is under the general play arrangements.

I know sometimes people have mentioned on here that they or a mate had a good round in a friendly and handed their card in and got a cut, but my understanding is that is not how the system should work. I think you'd need to hand in a few good cards. Just lucky to have a generous h'cap secretary I suppose.

As for the Annual Review there's something about it on the EGU website at

http://www.englishgolfunion.org/showpage.asp?code=0001000200090014

As Indicated above I'm not an expert so am happy to be corrected by those who are.

 

[viscount17]

I was lead to believe that as a cat3 I could hand a card in any time? is that true?

I think anyone apart from cat1 can hand in a card at anytime subject to some rules but that any resulting adjustment is under the general play arrangements.

I think you mean Supplementary cards. These are usually intended for those who for one reason or another cannot play sufficient qualifiers to record 3 (?) qualifying rounds.

Normal routine for these at my place is that you declare the round before hand, use a stamped card and record it in the book before play and play off the whites. Cards must be returned.

General play is more at the whim of handicap secs.

 

[USER1999]

Adjustment under general play at mine is not about putting casual cards in and getting a cut, this will not happen. You will only get cut under general play if you keep winning things, or shoot consistently under your h/cap in comps. If you get top 10 in about 4 comps in a row, you can expect a cut under general play.