RBZ Stage 2 Driver Shaft Snapped

[corrupthalo]

Yeah seen it was reduced lol typical. Was actually considering getting the fairway wood to complete the set but this driver shaft snapping has made me re consider.

Are Taylormade clubs a lower quality than say Ping or Callaway? Only be playing golf over a year but bitten hard by the bug. Down to 21.2 so not the greatest player in the world

 

[nemicu]

Nothing wrong with TM clubs at all - I would say their quality is on par with the other major brands.

 

[Ethan]

Nothing wrong with TM clubs at all - I would say their quality is on par with the other major brands.

Their 'made for' shafts are not on a par with better quality 'made for' or aftermarket shafts used by other OEMs.

 

[DAVEYBOY]

I'd say the shaft quality and possibly the build quality overall isn't as good as many other brands... Pick up a new Ping driver and you will probably be able to see and feel the difference in quality. My mate had Burner 2.0 irons with graphite shafts and 2 of them cracked and had to be replaced by TM.

 

[nemicu]

Their 'made for' shafts are not on a par with better quality 'made for' or aftermarket shafts used by other OEMs.

I would say thats a matter of opinion rather than fact. I'm not a huge fan of TM products, but the chances are their "made for" shafts are made at the exact same plant as other OEM's. Their tendency to make longer than normal shafts at lighter weights to uphold their distance claims also has the knock-on effect of having shafts that are more vulnerable to damage.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Their 'made for' shafts are not on a par with better quality 'made for' or aftermarket shafts used by other OEMs.

I agree with that in terms of the R1 and R11S and RBZ Stg2 but have found the R11 ,SLDR shaft to be very good - i guess with shafts its all personal

 

[drdel]

Not quite as cut and dried as that I'm afraid. The consumer has to prove that the failure occurred in normal use. In over 30 years, I've yet to see a graphite shaft break in half in the middle under normal use. AG are well within their rights to be suspicious of how the breakage occurred, just as the consumer is well within their rights to ask TM to inspect the club for appraisal to pursue any warranty claim. In other words, you need substantial proof - not "you do not have to prove anything" as you implied.

I stand my statement - it is not possible for a consumer to prove technical factors hence consumer law is written the way it is. Do not back down as the retailer cannot take away these righs

 

[Ethan]

I would say thats a matter of opinion rather than fact. I'm not a huge fan of TM products, but the chances are their "made for" shafts are made at the exact same plant as other OEM's. Their tendency to make longer than normal shafts at lighter weights to uphold their distance claims also has the knock-on effect of having shafts that are more vulnerable to damage.

The TM made for shafts are made for a very low price, and there is video on youtube showing a tear down of such shafts which shows the quality of construction reflect the budget. They are particularly vulnerable to damage when pulled, compared to aftermarket shafts.

But if they are lighter and longer and break more easily for that reason, then whats the difference? A broken shaft is a broken shaft.

 

[palindromicbob]

The TM made for shafts are made for a very low price, and there is video on youtube showing a tear down of such shafts which shows the quality of construction reflect the budget. They are particularly vulnerable to damage when pulled, compared to aftermarket shafts.

But if they are lighter and longer and break more easily for that reason, then whats the difference? A broken shaft is a broken shaft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xAQ3mjHiI

 

[Ethan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xAQ3mjHiI

Thanks Bob. Of course this only stands to reason. Some of the made for shafts are made to a laughably low cost (<$10) and while they may be adequate for the average golfer, there is no way they are made to the same standards as higher price aftermarket shafts. These shafts are essentially knock offs branded to look like something decent, and they have different playing characteristics as well. Then Mr Average switches to a club with the aftermarket shaft not knowing it is different and now can't hit it.

The problem for the punter is distinguishing between different brands. TM are well known for using poor quality 'made for' sgafts, whereas Mizuno are well known for using high quality components, including their own branded shafts. Ping TFC shafts are also known to be pretty good too. Other brands are somewhere in between.

 

[nemicu]

Oh please - if you think crushing a shaft in a vice is a subjective test of its integrity, then you must be the kind of golfer who thinks a £300 shaft will outperform a £30 shaft. If you stuck a high price aftermarket shaft in a vice and crushed it down, the same failure would occur. It's also worth noting that putting a shaft in a vice is not considered normal use and invalidates any warranty. Any more gems of wisdom on YouTube? Spine aligning with a spirit level maybe?

 

[Ethan]

Oh please - if you think crushing a shaft in a vice is a subjective test of its integrity, then you must be the kind of golfer who thinks a £300 shaft will outperform a £30 shaft. If you stuck a high price aftermarket shaft in a vice and crushed it down, the same failure would occur. It's also worth noting that putting a shaft in a vice is not considered normal use and invalidates any warranty. Any more gems of wisdom on YouTube? Spine aligning with a spirit level maybe?

Perhaps not but it shows differences in manufacturing quality.

You are the guy that thinks that stuff (allegedly) made in the same factory must be of the same quality. So I won't take any lectures from you.

As a general rule, £300 shafts ARE better quality. They may or may not be more suitable or perform better.

 

[nemicu]

Perhaps not but it shows differences in manufacturing quality.

You are the guy that thinks that stuff (allegedly) made in the same factory must be of the same quality. So I won't take any lectures from you.

As a general rule, £300 shafts ARE better quality. They may or may not be more suitable or perform better.

No lectures from me - just common sense. If you refer to the video in question posted on YouTube, you will see plenty of schoolboy errors. First off, look at the shafts - they're not even remotely similar for comparison. The alleged inferior shaft is probably an ultralight with very thin walls which is easily broken - even for an aftermarket shaft. The alleged superior shaft looks like an Aldila NV (hardly mega bucks) which could easily be a 105 and be 3 times thicker.
Secondly, you don't need huge vice pressure to pull a shaft - because the shaft is tapered from tip to butt, it's impossible for the shaft to be pulled in the same direction as the head, hence relatively low vice pressure is required (see most of the air vices used on tour vans)
Thirdly, he's an American wearing a white belt....
...funny how the most successful shafts on tour over the last 3 decades have been sub £50 shafts. Ben Curtis even won a tour event with a stock "made for" shaft.
If you want to discern the quality of a shaft by destroying it, it will be just as expensive either way.

 

[Ethan]

No lectures from me - just common sense. If you refer to the video in question posted on YouTube, you will see plenty of schoolboy errors. First off, look at the shafts - they're not even remotely similar for comparison. The alleged inferior shaft is probably an ultralight with very thin walls which is easily broken - even for an aftermarket shaft. The alleged superior shaft looks like an Aldila NV (hardly mega bucks) which could easily be a 105 and be 3 times thicker.
Secondly, you don't need huge vice pressure to pull a shaft - because the shaft is tapered from tip to butt, it's impossible for the shaft to be pulled in the same direction as the head, hence relatively low vice pressure is required (see most of the air vices used on tour vans)
Thirdly, he's an American wearing a white belt....
...funny how the most successful shafts on tour over the last 3 decades have been sub £50 shafts. Ben Curtis even won a tour event with a stock "made for" shaft.
If you want to discern the quality of a shaft by destroying it, it will be just as expensive either way.

Common sense is a much over rated commodity. If it applied, it would suggest that shafts made for less than $10 can't be up to much.
But nobody is saying that every expensive shaft is great and every cheap shaft is rubbish. £50 is not expensive but it isn't dirt price cheap knockoff price either, at which you can buy, amongst others, Graf PL Red, Graf Blue and UST V2 shafts. All of these shafts probably cost a bit more when they were first released though.

I said above that the quality of made for shafts varies between manufacturers. You appear to agree, having cited Ben Curtis who is a Titleist staffer. Titleist made for shafts have been pretty decent in recent years, as have Mizuno, Ping and a few others. Please feel free to cite a Taylor Made staffer, and God knows there are plenty of them, who has won with a stock retail shaft. Most of them don't even use stock retail wood or irons heads, let alone shafts.

 

[nemicu]

I think you missed my point. Regardless of the perceived quality of the shaft, or moreover how much (or little) TM pay to have them churned out and fitted to clubs - they are not designed to fail in the normal course of play. TM understand marketing better than most and are well aware that their products need to meet the basic fit for purpose description under the sale of goods act. That means that under QC checks (and not forgetting AG's additional 2 year guarantee) they are designed to remain intact under normal circumstances. The quality and price which you seem to cite as the benchmark of integrity has nothing to do with it. If even 2% of it's stock driver shafts failed under normal use, then they would have a lot to answer for in consumer action and reputation. Yes, the margins are pretty slim, but they are not kept so thin that the structural integrity of the components are open to question - simply to cover themselves from 3rd party claims for damages resulting from failure of their equipment. Nothing that compromises the brand in this manner is left to chance.
That is why if I repeat myself also, stock shafts (regardless of perceived quality) seldom break in the normal course of play - and when or if they do, the OEM's are quite careful in assessing the failure. I repeat also that I'm not a huge fan of TM, but the basic product line is not a pile of crap or assembled with poor quality components. Hopefully, the OP will get a satisfactory result from the problem, but in my experience the chances of getting a no-cost resolution from breaking a shaft in half are pretty slim.

 

[Hendy]

I say all tm stuff in American golf is not from the European tm.

They were the only company in UK selling non adjustable rbz stage 1s. Spoke with tm and they confirmed they never made a non adjustable version. So god knows were they get it from gave the serial number off it to the person in tm and they said was not coming up in the system, take what you want from it but....

Save to say I won't be using them for any gear any time soon

Edit: to add I am not saying there was no non adjustable rbzs made! Am saying tm Europe said they never made them.

 

[hovis]

My good friend who is a club builder makes his customer sign a waiver when pulling tm shafts because he can't guarantee they wont brake. He only uses the waiver for tm clubs.

 

[nemicu]

My good friend who is a club builder makes his customer sign a waiver when pulling tm shafts because he can't guarantee they wont brake. He only uses the waiver for tm clubs.

Must be one hell of a club builder - especially when you consider 50% of the range only need a screwdriver. If you're pulling a shaft anyway, then why bother if it breaks? Surely nobody would want to keep such an inferior shaft?

 

[hovis]

Must be one hell of a club builder - especially when you consider 50% of the range only need a screwdriver. If you're pulling a shaft anyway, then why bother if it breaks? Surely nobody would want to keep such an inferior shaft?

Most people who get the shaft pulled have a desire to keep it in one piece to sell on ebay. Not all tm clubs in the woods and hybrid range are adjustable either. He has a bin in his workshop full to the brim of broken tm stock shafts.

 

[Ethan]

I think you missed my point. Regardless of the perceived quality of the shaft, or moreover how much (or little) TM pay to have them churned out and fitted to clubs - they are not designed to fail in the normal course of play. TM understand marketing better than most and are well aware that their products need to meet the basic fit for purpose description under the sale of goods act. That means that under QC checks (and not forgetting AG's additional 2 year guarantee) they are designed to remain intact under normal circumstances. The quality and price which you seem to cite as the benchmark of integrity has nothing to do with it. If even 2% of it's stock driver shafts failed under normal use, then they would have a lot to answer for in consumer action and reputation. Yes, the margins are pretty slim, but they are not kept so thin that the structural integrity of the components are open to question - simply to cover themselves from 3rd party claims for damages resulting from failure of their equipment. Nothing that compromises the brand in this manner is left to chance.
That is why if I repeat myself also, stock shafts (regardless of perceived quality) seldom break in the normal course of play - and when or if they do, the OEM's are quite careful in assessing the failure. I repeat also that I'm not a huge fan of TM, but the basic product line is not a pile of crap or assembled with poor quality components. Hopefully, the OP will get a satisfactory result from the problem, but in my experience the chances of getting a no-cost resolution from breaking a shaft in half are pretty slim.

I am sure they don't design - them - to fail as such. I am also pretty sure that QC checks at the factory are pretty minimal. If iPhones and laptops are not fully QC checked (and they aren't) then I doubt that these shafts are either.

Nevertheless, there is a range of quality in all components, including shafts, and these are towards the dodgy end of that spectrum. With the product cycles spinning as fast at TM moves them, many of these may be with a second owner when failure occurs, and that person has probably bought it pretty cheap and will just junk it.

In any case, the OP's legal dispute is not with TM but with AG. AG may choose to enter a dispute with TM if they wish. Equally TM could choose to intervene and replace the club and that would be fine too.

If the OP took a small claims court case the issue would come down to the question of whether his account of not banging the club was reasonably credible. TM may be correct that 90% (say) of people who break a club by banging it on the ground get a mid shaft break. That doesn't mean that a mid shaft break is 90% likely due to a bang on the ground, though.