Rangers

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StuartD said:
Without rangers, or Celtic for that matter, there is a big risk of sky terminatting the tv contract. The tv money is what is keeping clubs afloat. Sky have an option to terminate the contract if either of the old firm are not involved. This was added when there was talk of the old firm leaving Scottish football. The mail carried a story ages ago that sky would tolerate Rfc being away for a season. Now suddenly we have this sfl1 option on the table although I would agree that rfc would struggle to get out of sfl1

As for the dwindling away support. Most clubs still send their tickets direct to rfc to sell. All those tickets are allocated to rfc season ticket holders at the start of the season and payment taken well in advance of the game. Therefore if you see any empty seats they have been paid for. Celtic operate in exactly the same way. As for not putting much extra on the gate may I suggest it's your own fans not turning up. As you can no longer fleece just the old firm fans buy charging them alone extra, rules were changed so that you must charge same price for similar stands. Since the home fans are now also having to pay up to £6 extra I have noticed a huge decline in home support when I have been at games

Also although the gate may not be that much bigger clubs are still making more money from the increased admission prices. My mate(st j fan) is able to take him and his kid to an away game for £34 quid(£22 and £12) for an old firm fan it costs at least £45 (£28 and £17) for the same ground. Some grounds it was more as junior prices were not made available.

I am sure that motherwell sent information out to their fans showing that revenues from each of the old firm were comparable with the other 9 clubs put together
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Yep, crowds are dwindling across the board, many reasons for that (economic, lack of competitiveness etc etc).

Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.

That, plus increased (my assumption) competitiveness for Europe etc should see clubs in a far healthier position, again assuming that they aren't run recklessly as rangers have been.

The rangers fans really do have my sympathy, I would hate this to be my club, but they still have a very arrogant way about them. Rangers were mince in the early 80's and Scottish football wasn't on its arse, 2 clubs reached European finals. Obviously that isn't going to happen again.

As for away ticket prices Aberdeen were (when I was goin) in cat A for all teams with rangers and Celtic so I have no sympathy I'm afraid. I paid £32 at tunecastle 4 days after paying £21 to watch Newcastle v Barcelona in the champions league!!
 
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NWJocko said:
Yep, crowds are dwindling across the board, many reasons for that (economic, lack of competitiveness etc etc).

Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.

That, plus increased (my assumption) competitiveness for Europe etc should see clubs in a far healthier position, again assuming that they aren't run recklessly as rangers have been.

The rangers fans really do have my sympathy, I would hate this to be my club, but they still have a very arrogant way about them. Rangers were mince in the early 80's and Scottish football wasn't on its arse, 2 clubs reached European finals. Obviously that isn't going to happen again.

As for away ticket prices Aberdeen were (when I was goin) in cat A for all teams with rangers and Celtic so I have no sympathy I'm afraid. I paid £32 at tunecastle 4 days after paying £21 to watch Newcastle v Barcelona in the champions league!!
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Exactly! If Motherwell who are insistent they will lose £900,000 by Sevco going to the 3rd division actually made a claim for the second place that IMO is rightfully theirs they would actually be up money.

If after all of this upheaval it means that some of the 40 clubs have to go P/T then, unfortunately, so be it. It means that there is an even bigger incentive to actually do well and no just "exist" even start using youth players from Scotland and not just relying on crap overrated foreign imports.
 
NWJocko said:
Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.
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Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs. If they can get past the short term losses, cut here cloth etc then Scottish football could be the better for it. If tv revenues are lost maybe the Sfa could help in the short term but there is not much cash their either. I have had to watch my club being driven deliberately into administration by a con man trying to make a quick buck. Although many are rejoicing I'll admit it has been bloody hard to watch. I would hate to see any other club and their fans suffer in the fallout of this mans actions.
 
StuartD said:
Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs. If they can get past the short term losses, cut here cloth etc then Scottish football could be the better for it. If tv revenues are lost maybe the Sfa could help in the short term but there is not much cash their either. I have had to watch my club being driven deliberately into administration by a con man trying to make a quick buck. Although many are rejoicing I'll admit it has been bloody hard to watch. I would hate to see any other club and their fans suffer in the fallout of this mans actions.
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Fancy calling Murray a Conman....some fans are so ungrateful for what he did for them.
 
48 hours to decision time.
What's your best guess?

I think it will be Div1 with a 20 point penalty + Football debts to other SPL clubs to be repaid by the start of the season.
Club 12 ........Dundee. [sadly, as Dunfermilne have the moral rights]
 
StuartD said:
Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs..
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In an ideal world the NEW club would apply to enter Div 3 as all NEW clubs do , the would be assessed on the same grounds & criteria as all other NEW clubs should be ..
IN fairness the newco bid should surpass anything the others have to offer . shouldnt they ?
If this club wants to be NEW it should sever all ties with the OLD club , if you dont want the old clubs baggage you also can not benifit in who you may have been once upon a time ...
I think in all fairness most proper Rangers fans see & accept this ..
The ground work for the new club does seem pretty unstable even still tho , they should have accepted this was the way it going to be put in good base for the future ..
 
Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.
 
murphthemog said:
Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.
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Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much OK stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future
 
murphthemog said:
Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.
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Trophies won,tainted by cheating or not,are not their property,regardless of who wins what trophies remain the property of SFA/SFL etc etc.
 
bladeplayer said:
Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much OK stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future
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free-confused-smileys-718.gif
 
bladeplayer said:
Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much OK stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future
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Well said Blade man.
I like the Bill Clinton campaign song 'Don't stop thinking about tomorrow'.
Sadly far too many of us live our lives in the past.

BTW I heard that Newco will not be allowed into the English lower leagues as Superpally said 'They won't do Woking away.
 
bladeplayer said:
Was in reply to murphs , what happens the trophys & the beast not dying .. only people can keep the beast alive by draging up history ..
We cant change it so we may just accept it & leave it in the past,
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The beast is dead though and why would that make any difference to the trophies that they have won in the past?

And if you think that this sectarianism and bigotry is contained to football, and one or two clubs in particular, well frankly you are way way wide of the mark
 
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