Rangers

[FairwayDodger]

Lets stay with Airdrie United for a moment, are we saying what the owner of Clydebank did was wrong when he moved to Airdrie from Clydebank and in doing so doubled the fan base and rebranded his club all with the permission of the SFL?

If so what do you think of the club formerly know as Meadowbank Thistle now commonly know as Livingston who's owners moved them and rebranded them, is this really much different?

Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.

 

[Val]

Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.

Airdrie went bust and formed a newco (Airdrie Utd) and applied for entry into the SFL (ring any bells?), the SFL refused entry and let a team who were currently playing in the English leagues in (Gretna).

The owners of Airdrie then purchased a dying club (and believe me it was dying big time, a couple of hundred fans max every week) and relocated and rebranded it, sad for a few hundred fans and great for a few thousand fans.

Meadowbank yes was slightly different to be fair and the commercial sense was to move from Edinburgh to a growing town but ambition and money did'nt go well with Livingston hence their admin troubles.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The owners of Airdrie then purchased a dying club (and believe me it was dying big time, a couple of hundred fans max every week) and relocated and rebranded it, sad for a few hundred fans and great for a few thousand fans.

Shades of grey isn't it? And when you argue it like that it's almost convincing.

I do remember the state Clydebank were in and in all likelihood they would have died anyway. It just seemed very wrong to me at the time.

 

[Val]

Shades of grey isn't it? And when you argue it like that it's almost convincing.

I do remember the state Clydebank were in and in all likelihood they would have died anyway. It just seemed very wrong to me at the time.

Would it seem wrong if "The Rangers" were denied entry into the SFL then purchased a homeless club (lets call them East Stirling just now) and relocate to Ibrox?

You would think I was in the know here

(For the record im not in the know it's all just thoughts :rofl: )

 

[FairwayDodger]

Would it seem wrong if "The Rangers" were denied entry into the SFL then purchased a homeless club (lets call them East Stirling just now) and relocate to Ibrox?

You would think I was in the know here

(For the record im not in the know it's all just thoughts :rofl: )

Yes definitely and they wouldn't have my support under those circumstances.

I also believe it would be wrong for the SFL to deny "The Rangers" access to the league.... unless there was a superior alternative bid, which I can't currently imagine happening.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

To promote football in the Borders I think the SPL [whatever] should force newco to relocate to Galashields.

 

[FairwayDodger]

To promote football in the Borders I think the SPL [whatever] should force newco to relocate to Galashields.

Is it like in school where the teacher separates the troublemakers?

You, boy, Rangers - move to Galashields.

What are you laughing at, Celtic? Eh? Get yourself over to Stornoway, boy.

 

[Hobbit]

The sad issue of the demise of a great club aside, this thread has given a fantastic insight into football, its wheeling and dealings and its fan base. A thank you to all the contributors.

The loss of Rangers will affect every club in the SPL because of the lost revenue from the fixtures. There may well be a further loss of revenue from TV rights as the various broadcasters perceive a diminished product. The taxman has, in effect, put all the clubs at a financial risk to a greater or lesser extent but that's the club's fault for structuring their business to a level of risk that isn't sustainable if/when the house of cards falls.

Is it fair that Rangers has gone to the wall? If it was a dispute between two businesses I'd say its a shame but its not. Its non-payment of taxes. Taxes that pay for hospitals, Social Services etc. And at the end of the day its been the man in the street that's not avoided taxes and has been paying the bill for hospitals etc that Rangers should have been contributing to.

In that respect, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Rangers' plight, and I hope it serves as a reminder to all businesses, football or otherwise, that dodging your tax bill is unacceptable.

 

[FairwayDodger]

In that respect, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Rangers' plight, and I hope it serves as a reminder to all businesses, football or otherwise, that dodging your tax bill is unacceptable.

Vodafone anyone? Man, this thread could go on forever! We've not even touched on Wallace Mercer trying to takeover Hibs yet. :ears:

 

[Val]

Vodafone anyone? Man, this thread could go on forever! We've not even touched on Wallace Mercer trying to takeover Hibs yet. :ears:

Wait till more skeletons emerge :lol:

John Fleck also does walking away, go have a look at The Rangers Football club on wiki and count their playing squad :rofl:

 

[FairwayDodger]

Wait till more skeletons emerge :lol:

John Fleck also does walking away, go have a look at The Rangers Football club on wiki and count their playing squad :rofl:

Do you think there's any way I could just avoid all football news for the rest of the summer and then check at the start of the season if Rangers are there anywhere?

It could be like the trick of searching for your golf ball in the area you'd quite like it to be rather than deep in the doodah where you suspect it ended up.

SPL? nope. Div 1? nope. Div 2? nope. Div 3? .........

 

[Val]

Do you think there's any way I could just avoid all football news for the rest of the summer and then check at the start of the season if Rangers are there anywhere?

It could be like the trick of searching for your golf ball in the area you'd quite like it to be rather than deep in the doodah where you suspect it ended up.

SPL? nope. Div 1? nope. Div 2? nope. Div 3? .........

You could avoid if you stop posting here, read/watch the newspapers/news, listen to the radio etc etc etc.

Your stuck with it pal

 

[Val]

"No one likes us, we don't care" (well untill now that is)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...nnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352

1964 bid to eject minnows could come back to haunt club


By CRAIG P STEWART
Published on Tuesday 26 June 2012 00:00

IRONY will be at the forefront of the minds of certain members of the Scottish Football League with long memories when they vote on the future of ‘The Rangers’.
Five clubs which will be involved in determining which division the Ibrox club will play in next season – Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and Stranraer – may think back 48 years when the boot was on the other foot.
In 1964, this gang of five survived an attempt to oust them from senior football in a move led by Rangers.
The Glasgow giants wanted to reduce the number of clubs in the then top two divisions from 37 to 32 and proposed that the minnows should drop out.
Rangers proposed that the five clubs with the smallest gate receipts should be kicked out and were at the vanguard of moves to make it happen, including sending out correspondence to the other member clubs and deliberately excluding the targeted clubs.
Amid much legal wrangling, the smaller clubs – supported by Celtic and their chairman Robert Kelly – survived the move. SFL Operations Director David Thomson recalled: “The book that was launched to mark the centenary of the SFL in 1990 records what happened. The five clubs were in danger of being voted out. However, Stenhousemuir committee member Robert Turpey, who was also a lawyer, and strongly supported by the other clubs, was successful in raising an interim interdict on their behalf.”
The matter was eventually resolved out of court in November 1964 amid promises that the clubs would remain in the SFL and any new league that was formed. Thomson added: “That decision probably marks the start of a move to three professional leagues that started a decade later when the Premier League along with Divisions 1 and 2 were created.”
However, Rangers’ role in the wrangle caused a lot of anger at the time, especially in Stranraer. Present-day committee member Shaun Niven said: “I know that a lot of people in the town were unhappy with what had gone on. Stranraer are Scotland’s third oldest team as we were formed in 1870 after just Queen’s Park and Kilmarnock. We waited over 80 years to be admitted to the old-style Division Two and to be told after ten years that we were not wanted caused a lot of resentment. The clubs that had been targeted rallied round to win their case and remain in the SFL to this day.”
Looking at Rangers’ present predicament, Niven added: “This situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up. We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years ago.
“This whole situation is full of issues going full circle as it has probably accelerated the amalgamation of the SPL and the SFL 15 years after they were spilt apart by SPL sides led by Rangers and Celtic. Now one league body is seen as the way forward.”
Berwick, of course, took a measure of revenge on the park less than two years later when they defeated Rangers 1-0 in a Scottish Cup tie, and now the fate of the club that wanted to expel them and four others could sit in their collective hands.
If it comes to a vote at the SFL, Stranraer would have to balance the prospect of placing Rangers in the First Division for the good of the game overall against their own promotion to the Second Division, as they were the losing play-off side last month and weigh up the benefit of eight local derbies against Queen of the South and Ayr United to an overall package that benefits the SFL overall.
Niven added, “Nothing will be pre-judged based on what happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football overall

Lots of clubs lining up to sink the boot in deep

:rofl:

 

[FairwayDodger]

"No one likes us, we don't care" (well untill now that is)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...nnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352



Lots of clubs lining up to sink the boot in deep

:rofl:

No doubt the media will be digging deep for all the old grudges. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

However, a voice of reason...

Niven added, “Nothing will be pre-judged based on what happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football overall
​

​

 

[smange]

Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.

And here we have the typical Old Firm arrogance

Yes it does make sense because Livingstone, like Celtic, like Forfar, like every other team in Scotland has its own identity, its own history and its own fans.

What do you want to happen? Will we just close down every "wee" team and make every football supporter left without a club pick which one of the Old Firm they want to support then the ugly sisters can play each other 38 times a season in a two team super league.

You have came across as a quite untypically sensible Old Firm fan so far but you just cant quite keep the "big club" arrogance hidden

 

[FairwayDodger]

And here we have the typical Old Firm arrogance

Yes it does make sense because Livingstone, like Celtic, like Forfar, like every other team in Scotland has its own identity, its own history and its own fans.

What do you want to happen? Will we just close down every "wee" team and make every football supporter left without a club pick which one of the Old Firm they want to support then the ugly sisters can play each other 38 times a season in a two team super league.

You have came across as a quite untypically sensible Old Firm fan so far but you just cant quite keep the "big club" arrogance hidden

Huge overreaction to a throwaway remark I made when considering the point Valentino made w.r.t how Meadowbank Thistle moving to Livingston differed from Clydebank being forceably moved to Airdrie.

I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business. So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.

You have huge blinkers on when it comes to the old firm and are just looking to jump on anything I or any other fan says here.

EDIT: In fact, why don't you highlight the rest of my point instead of just the bit that fits your agenda:

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.

 

[smange]

Huge overreaction to a throwaway remark I made when considering the point Valentino made w.r.t how Meadowbank Thistle moving to Livingston differed from Clydebank being forceably moved to Airdrie.

I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business. So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.

You have huge blinkers on when it comes to the old firm and are just looking to jump on anything I or any other fan says here.

"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?

Its not the fans of the "wee" teams that have the huge blinkers on, the fans of the "wee" teams are the ones who contrary to what the Old Firm believe are the lifes blood of Scottish football and if the vote for Newco to the SPL/SFL doesnt go the way the fans of the "wee" clubs firmly believe it should then these same fans will be the ones who drive the final nail into the coffin of Scottish football.

Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.

I highlighted that part as that was the part that displayed the typical arrogance of Old Firm fans that so annoys supporters of "wee" teams

 

[Val]

I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business. So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.

They weren't, they were bought and rebranded.

A bit like your local newsagent being bought by Spar and becoming Spar.

 

[FairwayDodger]

"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?

<deep sigh> OK... he said, she said...

Valentino said that it made commercial sense for the owners of Meadowbank Thistle to move their club to the new town of Livingston and a broader fan base.

My remark was simply considering that point and musing about the proximity of Meadowbank Stadium to Easter Road.

I don't actually have a strong view on this one - I hadn't considered the point until Valentino raised it.

Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.

You might notice I live in Edinburgh these days. Over the last few years I've attended more Hibs and Hearts games than Rangers but I'm a neutral at these games and could never get the passion to support any club other than the one my dad took me to when I was a child and that I have supported for the subsequent thirty-odd years.

 

[thecraw]

"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?

Its not the fans of the "wee" teams that have the huge blinkers on, the fans of the "wee" teams are the ones who contrary to what the Old Firm believe are the lifes blood of Scottish football and if the vote for Newco to the SPL/SFL doesnt go the way the fans of the "wee" clubs firmly believe it should then these same fans will be the ones who drive the final nail into the coffin of Scottish football.

Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.

I highlighted that part as that was the part that displayed the typical arrogance of Old Firm fans that so annoys supporters of "wee" teams

I'm not a supporter of a big team however we have more European Trophies than any of the Old Farm. That said I also happen to think there are far too many diddy teams in Scottish Football who live from hand to mouth and prey to God that they get a bumper Scottish Cup Tie against an Old Farm team.

These teams take money out of football and offer virtually nothing in return.

Scottish football needs striped to the bone and blown apart before it can ever move forward and for me some of these "wee" teams need to go to!

My local junior side Arthurlie attract more punters than Albion Rovers for example and when they get a Pollok deby you can get between 2&3k fans which some first division sides would be jealous off!