Rangers

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I know alot of people wont agree with me , but im just wondering . now with Rangers gone , Celtic should & probably will win the league for say at least the next 5years .. ok ? aligences aside do we agree on this ?

Do you think sky sports or other TV companies will want to spend money to buy into this scenario/farce , how ever you would like it described ?

Who will get the champions league spots ? Hearts , Motherwell ? are they realy in a place to compete at that level yet ?

I am not for a second saying what rangers did shouldnt be punished , it should & seems it will be , but is Scotish football prepared for the backlash across the board ?

I am not geting into the heated debate that is going on i am GENUINELY wondering if this can possibly not have far reaching consequences for all of Scottish football , & people wil say Scottish football dont NEED Rangers or Celtic for that matter , but in all honesty are these 2 clubs not mostly responsible for TV income etc ? what happens if you kill one of the golden geese ?

as i say i am genuinely asking a question that i dont know the answer to & am intrested in genuine answeres from people with more knowledge of it than myself .
 
chris661 said:
How did Scottish football fare on the european stage in the 80's and 90's or how competative wsa the league when only one of rangers and celtic were strong?
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Looking at the past again.... I'm trying to think what's best going forward for Scottish football of which I'm a long time supporter.

Yes, in time we might get a team like Aberdeen or Dundee United challenging Celtic. But maybe not. European football now bears no relation to the 80s and 90s - it's a different world and Scottish teams no longer have the finances to compete; Rangers tried, took foolish risks and we see how that ended.

To me, we can't afford to lose such a great proportion of paying customers just because the others didn't like Rangers.
 
Regarding religious intolerance I think people need to realise it is very much a west of Scotland issue and mainly Glasgow due to the historic high numbers of Irish migrant workers who came here many moons ago. Don't blight all of Scotland with this - it's not a Scottish problem, it's just an Old Firm/Glasgow problem. I think the situation is also greatly improved since a few decades ago as the older generation die off who were far less tolerant and more bigoted than younger generations, despite going to Church every Sunday!
 
Can't even mention Rangers i our house at the moment;)

My wifes a life long Rangers fan and is not taking the whole sorry saga very well.

I asked here this morning what was happening and she just threw me a dirty look and went off to get ready for work;)
 
bladeplayer said:
I am not geting into the heated debate that is going on i am GENUINELY wondering if this can possibly not have far reaching consequences for all of Scottish football , & people wil say Scottish football dont NEED Rangers or Celtic for that matter , but in all honesty are these 2 clubs not mostly responsible for TV income etc ? what happens if you kill one of the golden geese ?
Click to expand...

I believe your assessment is correct. As a Rangers fan, I'm open to accusations of arrogance, intimidation etc if I press that point of view.

Scottish football will undoubtedly survive without Rangers but in a reduced form. Sky mainly want to cover four old firm games, and to a lesser extent games involving one of the old firm. I expect they'd still show SPL football but only for a greatly reduced fee (and they already pay buttons compared to the EPL).

This is actually a once in a lifetime opportunity to make significant structural changes that might benefit Scottish football but, unfortunately, Rangers fans are too busy desperately trying to keep their club going and almost everyone else still wants to put the boot in.

We need to be able to take a step back with clear heads and work out the best way forward for football in this country.

Unfortunately clear heads and Scottish football rarely go together.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Looking at the past again.... I'm trying to think what's best going forward for Scottish football of which I'm a long time supporter.

Yes, in time we might get a team like Aberdeen or Dundee United challenging Celtic. But maybe not. European football now bears no relation to the 80s and 90s - it's a different world and Scottish teams no longer have the finances to compete; Rangers tried, took foolish risks and we see how that ended.

To me, we can't afford to lose such a great proportion of paying customers just because the others didn't like Rangers.
Click to expand...

TO me we cant afford to keep rangers in. They have systematically cheated their way through the lsat 15 years or so, went bust owing possibly 130 MILLION pounds but Scottish football is just supposed to say its ok come on back?
 
FairwayDodger said:
I believe your assessment is correct. As a Rangers fan, I'm open to accusations of arrogance, intimidation etc if I press that point of view.

Scottish football will undoubtedly survive without Rangers but in a reduced form. Sky mainly want to cover four old firm games, and to a lesser extent games involving one of the old firm. I expect they'd still show SPL football but only for a greatly reduced fee (and they already pay buttons compared to the EPL).

This is actually a once in a lifetime opportunity to make significant structural changes that might benefit Scottish football but, unfortunately, Rangers fans are too busy desperately trying to keep their club going and almost everyone else still wants to put the boot in.

We need to be able to take a step back with clear heads and work out the best way forward for football in this country.

Unfortunately clear heads and Scottish football rarely go together.
Click to expand...

To me this argument of a "non-competitive league " doesn't hold water.

Rangers won 9 in a row when, for the first while at least, Celtic were on their backsides financially.

What help were rangers proposing for Celtic at that point for the "good of Scottish football"?

Re the past, it isn't long since Livingston were kicked to the bottom and Gretna effectively flushed out of existence.

Whilst the league may be poorer and less marketable without rangers you simply cannot make the rules up as you go along on an ad hoc basis.

A question for the rangers fans- if this was Dundee it'd, hearts, Aberdeen etc would you be crying for them to be kept in the spl?
 
chris661 said:
TO me we cant afford to keep rangers in. They have systematically cheated their way through the lsat 15 years or so, went bust owing possibly 130 MILLION pounds but Scottish football is just supposed to say its ok come on back?
Click to expand...

Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.
 
birdieman said:
Regarding religious intolerance I think people need to realise it is very much a west of Scotland issue and mainly Glasgow due to the historic high numbers of Irish migrant workers who came here many moons ago. Don't blight all of Scotland with this - it's not a Scottish problem, it's just an Old Firm/Glasgow problem. I think the situation is also greatly improved since a few decades ago as the older generation die off who were far less tolerant and more bigoted than younger generations, despite going to Church every Sunday!
Click to expand...

You are wrong with this claim on so many levels,try travelling around the grounds of Scotland as a Celtic fan and you will soon realise this.I did so for nearly ten years as a Protestant supporting Celtic fan and believe me places like Edinburgh,Motherwell and Dundee were as bad as travelling to Ibrox.
 
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FairwayDodger said:
Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.
Click to expand...

With Chris here and cannot believe you think this way.

What statement does this say to the rest of the clubs in Scotland?

My Old Man,a Jambo,says that if this happens Mad Vlad may as well spend big,win the league,give the Jambo's the time of their lives then liquidate the club seeing as it'll just be a case of coming back straight after.

Open your eyes to the damage this could/will cause to the fans of the other teams for Christ sake.

# Edited to say my apologies.....I see you are happy with Div 3 as I am (with further sanctions),I thought you were arguing to a straight return to SPL which is wrong on so many fronts.:thup:
 
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FairwayDodger said:
Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.
Click to expand...

But the entity that is Rangers is still there, albeit a different name, and as such are still liable for the cheating etc. Honestly I would not be happy for them to come back in to scottish football scot free as it shows that there is zero integrity and the rest of the clubs are essentially parasites living off celtic and rangers. I want a strong and competitive league and if that means some downsizing for all so be it.
 
Dodger said:
With Chris here and cannot believe you think this way.

What statement does this say to the rest of the clubs in Scotland?

My Old Man,a Jambo,says that if this happens Mad Vlad may as well spend big,win the league,give the Jambo's the time of their lives then liquidate the club seeing as it'll just be a case of coming back straight after.

Open your eyes to the damage this could/will cause to the fans of the other teams for Christ sake.
Click to expand...

That's a typical hypothetical "pub" argument and totally specious. Anyone who wants to go through what Rangers have just gone through is an idiot, frankly.

I'd trade every trophy they've won in my lifetime to still have a team to support.

Starting again, chastened, in division 3 is not exactly "coming back straight after".

EDIT: OK, just seen your edit. We're sort of in agreement I think! :cheers:
 
Another thing, when rangers were wanting to leave the league to go to England how many were worried about the strength of Scottish football then?
 
To all the people who seem to reckon Scottish football needs Sky TV, can I just point you back to the days before Sky TV when clubs such as Aberdeen and Dundee United actually won the league and done well in Europe. We also had a much stronger national side than we have had for 20 years

All Sky has done for Scottish football has made Rangers and Celtic stronger and weakened the rest in comparison to the old firm. Im not sure of the figures but the old firm get a higher percentage of the money between themselves than the rest of the league do all together. Sky have actually been to the detriment of Scottish football as a whole.

Its time Scottish football took a step back and looked at itself, does the countries football supporters enjoy having two teams winning most trophies most years? Of course they dont so lets look at strengthening the game in general and not just the old firm.

Who knows maybe if we concentrated on the whole of Scottish football our national side might one day qualify for the finals of a major tournament again.

Our game has become a laughing stock and this carry on with Rangers is making it a whole lot worse, and if Newco are allowed entry into the SPL next season our game is dead and buried.
 
Dodger said:
You are wrong with this claim on so many levels,try travelling around the grounds of Scotland as a Celtic fan and you will soon realise this.I did so for nearly ten years as a Protestant supporting Celtic fan and believe me places like Edinburgh,Motherwell and Dundee were as bad as travelling to Ibrox.
Click to expand...

It saddens me as a Scotsman to agree with this. People who think this is confined to the west and, further still, old firm fans have their head in the sand.

I'm not a fan of either the OF but living in the east and attending matches I know that it is pretty widespread.
 
FairwayDodger said:
That's a typical hypothetical "pub" argument and totally specious. Anyone who wants to go through what Rangers have just gone through is an idiot, frankly.

I'd trade every trophy they've won in my lifetime to still have a team to support.

Starting again, chastened, in division 3 is not exactly "coming back straight after".
Click to expand...

Read my edit.;)

It isn't hypothetical though is it,this could actually happen and therefore steps must be put in place to stop it.

Through all of this it amazes me that I have hardly come across a Rangers fan who is genuinely sorry,maybe sorry is the wrong word, embarrassed maybe?/ by what has happened and this is why so many cannot find the time to have even the slightest bit of sympathy.

A few with a wee bit of humility would go along way.
 
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