R&A/USGA report on equipment standards

[Imurg]

I think the restrictions should be for everyone playing the game. Us amateurs have no chance of getting a club to do what probably any pro could do with it if we gave it to them.

Any change that affects the amateur will take years to come into effect so as not to burden us with expense.
And don't forget..this distance thing...only a very small number of Professional players hit the ball too far..
Most of us don't.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I couldn’t think of anything worse

Why would a club want to limit what equipment is used in club comps ?

How many clubs are seeing players “over power” the club - none at ours

Golf bodies at times seem to have this habit of reacting to small areas - the longest will always be the longest in the comp , regardless of what ball or club they use. It is what it is but it only affects the very smallest percentage of golfers

What are you going to do - make sure the ball only goes 300 yards ? 280 ? 250 ? .

It’s quite the opposite in my opinion, all the +/scratch handicappers at my club are painfully accurate and absolute short game wizards. None are obscenely long. The long players? They go in the heather a lot, where there is no way of playing a good shot.

If you miss the fairway you should be penalised, and the pro players are not penalised by the current rough on almost all courses on the circuit. Therefore, simply grow the rough longer, especially beyond the fairway bunkers etc that they typically go straight over the top of these days.

 

[Imurg]

Is it possible to limit how far a ball goes or how far a club will it hit. If we are just thinking about reducing length of courses then fine, reign back the technology. So if 320 yard par 4 become a drive and 7 iron for an average tour pro, the bigger hitters will still be able to go Drive/Wedge, so in reality it's the same as now

You can increase the weight of the ball, limit the time in contact with the face, limit the CoR even further to reduce the trampoline effect
All these will shorten distances
Add in a smaller clubbed to make them less forgiving and you can easily knock 40 yards+ off long drives.
If they're going to do it, do it properly
Taking 10 yards off will make no difference

 

[Steve Wilkes]

You can increase the weight of the ball, limit the time in contact with the face, limit the CoR even further to reduce the trampoline effect
All these will shorten distances
Add in a smaller clubbed to make them less forgiving and you can easily knock 40 yards+ off long drives.
If they're going to do it, do it properly
Taking 10 yards off will make no difference

Would this also take off 40 yards of normal drives

 

[Imurg]

Would this also take off 40 yards of normal drives

Probably
Possibly a smaller %age.

 

[USER1999]

It just needs to be harder to hit these distances, and the penalty for not hitting out of the middle needs to be bigger. Change the face, the MOI, the size, the weight, make them tee it lower, and then get a spinnier more batata like ball, and good to go. It would still be possible to put it out there, but it would separate the best from the rest. Greg Norman hit it long, but not many others could, and it wasn't just down to swing speed.

 

[Golfnut1957]

It’s quite the opposite in my opinion, all the +/scratch handicappers at my club are painfully accurate and absolute short game wizards. None are obscenely long. The long players? They go in the heather a lot, where there is no way of playing a good shot.

If you miss the fairway you should be penalised, and the pro players are not penalised by the current rough on almost all courses on the circuit. Therefore, simply grow the rough longer, especially beyond the fairway bunkers etc that they typically go straight over the top of these days.

The problem here is that the R&A and the USGA, the bodies which govern most of golf don't govern the Tour, in America the PGA Tour does that and for them, it is all about the show.
For them the players are all saints, they never transgress, on or off the course. They never cheat, not even P Reed, and every player hits his drive 320 yards.
Every course is a pristine Elysian Field (sorry St Andrews) that allows the player to hit that 320 yard drive without penalty, which allows him to hit wedge to the green, which helps him accumulate lots of birdies.
And this is what the PGA believes that the undiscerning American audience crave, and if the audience is happy, the marketing men are happy.
So not only are you unlikely to see rough on most PGA Tour course, I'd be surprised if you saw a roll back in how far the ball goes (on the tour) any time soon.

 

[hovis]

What a wishy-washy waste of time.

and the average single figure handicap golfer's good drive to 250 yards, IMHO.

Why? What does that achieve? One of the most appealing things to alot of golfers is hitting the ball far. We'd also have to shorten all the long holes in the world. I don't fancy playing a 480 yard par 4 driver, driver.

 

[USER1999]

Hitting the ball further is fun for us choppers, and could easily remain as is. It is also possible that some of the non elite level ladies could benefit from kit that hits it further still. We are all a world away from the pro game.

 

[Jensen]

Does this mean it could be a bad time to buy new irons ?
Reviewing the spring effect/trampoline effect, surely this will effect the new Ping G425 and Callaway Apex DBC.
I think these are hollow type that have a larger hitting area over the face.
I’m concerned in case I buy them, only for them to be band shortly after.
I heard some horror stories when the trampoline situation effected new drivers.

 

[Crow]

Why? What does that achieve? One of the most appealing things to alot of golfers is hitting the ball far. We'd also have to shorten all the long holes in the world. I don't fancy playing a 480 yard par 4 driver, driver.

480 yards was a par 5 before things got crazy.
You'd still be hitting the ball far compared to others though, it's all relative.
But if you like one dimensional bomb and gouge golf carry on.

 

[Imurg]

480 yards was a par 5 before things got crazy.
You'd still be hitting the ball far compared to others though, it's all relative.
But if you like one dimensional bomb and gouge golf carry on.

What about your ordinary club mid to high handicapper who only gets 210 out of his driver kn a good day?
Roll everything back and he's going to get under 200, maybe as little as 180.
And thats going to make an awful lot of par 4s unreachable in 2 as his 3 wood is only going 160.
They'll rarely hit an iron into a par 3.
Rollback doesn't just reign in the big boys...it screws with the short hitters too.
And that's why the amateurs should be excluded.

 

[Crow]

What about your ordinary club mid to high handicapper who only gets 210 out of his driver kn a good day?
Roll everything back and he's going to get under 200, maybe as little as 180.
And thats going to make an awful lot of par 4s unreachable in 2 as his 3 wood is only going 160.
They'll rarely hit an iron into a par 3.
Rollback doesn't just reign in the big boys...it screws with the short hitters too.
And that's why the amateurs should be excluded.

That's the idea, hole lengths go back to being reasonable, 450 yard par 4s and 200 yard par 3s are unnecessary.
Course lengths can be back to around 5,800 to 6,500 yards.
The ordinary mid to high handicapper shouldn't be reaching long par 4s in two shots.
Shorter courses equal quicker rounds, isn't that what everybody has been banging on about for years?
Cheaper course maintenance.
Fewer lost balls.
Playing all your clubs again.
And if you do it properly the shorter hitters are less impacted. The easiest way is to use a lighter ball, that has a greater effect on long hitters than short hitters, but long hitters will still have an advantage.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Does this mean it could be a bad time to buy new irons ?
Reviewing the spring effect/trampoline effect, surely this will effect the new Ping G425 and Callaway Apex DBC.
I think these are hollow type that have a larger hitting area over the face.
I’m concerned in case I buy them, only for them to be band shortly after.
I heard some horror stories when the trampoline situation effected new drivers.

It is almost certain that it will not affect irons.
Modern irons don't really fly any further than their older counterparts, it only appears that they do, that is because they have strengthened the loft and increased the length.
There is a reason that modern sets of distance irons only go to 5 or even 6 iron. That is because they have the characteristics (loft and length) of a 4 iron, or in some cases of a 3 iron, from older sets.
If they provided a 3 iron for a set of TM Sim2 Max it would have a loft of 15 degrees, the 4 iron has 19 degrees. This is an old fashion 1 iron and as someone once said "only God can hit a 1 iron. Compare this to the Wilson Staff V6, a club that is still available now, and the loft of the 4 iron is 24 degrees, a world of difference.
Even with hollow construction technology, which in my opinion adds nothing but reduce feel, I don't think that the governing bodies are ever going to find themselves worrying about how far anyone hits an iron, not even Dechambeau.

 

[hovis]

That's the idea, hole lengths go back to being reasonable, 450 yard par 4s and 200 yard par 3s are unnecessary.
Course lengths can be back to around 5,800 to 6,500 yards.
The ordinary mid to high handicapper shouldn't be reaching long par 4s in two shots.
Shorter courses equal quicker rounds, isn't that what everybody has been banging on about for years?
Cheaper course maintenance.
Fewer lost balls.
Playing all your clubs again.
And if you do it properly the shorter hitters are less impacted. The easiest way is to use a lighter ball, that has a greater effect on long hitters than short hitters, but long hitters will still have an advantage.

Mid to high handicap golfer's shouldn't able to hit a par 4 in 2 shots? Are you for real? The majority of golfers are mid to high handicap golfer's.
As for saving time. The only time that will save is the time is takes to walk an extra 40 yards a hole because I'll still be waiting on the tee box all the same.
I'm guessing your not very long off the tee? And maybe a seasoned golfer?

I think if golfers out there are struggling to enjoy the game because they can't reach a 450 yard par 4 in two the answer lies in allowing them to play a shorter course and allowing others to play a longer course. The answer is not to make all of us play a short course to give the tappers a chance

 

[Imurg]

That's the idea, hole lengths go back to being reasonable, 450 yard par 4s and 200 yard par 3s are unnecessary.
Course lengths can be back to around 5,800 to 6,500 yards.
The ordinary mid to high handicapper shouldn't be reaching long par 4s in two shots.
Shorter courses equal quicker rounds, isn't that what everybody has been banging on about for years?
Cheaper course maintenance.
Fewer lost balls.
Playing all your clubs again.
And if you do it properly the shorter hitters are less impacted. The easiest way is to use a lighter ball, that has a greater effect on long hitters than short hitters, but long hitters will still have an advantage.

Most courses lengths are 5800 to 6500...at least they are in the amateur game
The number of club players who overpower courses is almost as small as the number of Tour Pros that do the same.
Ask the majority of club players and I can almost guarantee none will say they should be hitting it shorter.
This is a Pro/Elite player problem.

 

[Golfnut1957]

That's the idea, hole lengths go back to being reasonable, 450 yard par 4s and 200 yard par 3s are unnecessary.
Course lengths can be back to around 5,800 to 6,500 yards.
The ordinary mid to high handicapper shouldn't be reaching long par 4s in two shots.
Shorter courses equal quicker rounds, isn't that what everybody has been banging on about for years?
Cheaper course maintenance.
Fewer lost balls.
Playing all your clubs again.
And if you do it properly the shorter hitters are less impacted. The easiest way is to use a lighter ball, that has a greater effect on long hitters than short hitters, but long hitters will still have an advantage.

Reading this I'm struggling to agree which much of it at all.
The high handicappers that I play with can't reach Par 4's in two now.
Shorter course equal quicker rounds. In my experience slow play comes from 3 key areas. Faffing about on the greens with lines on golf balls being one example. Looking for lost balls and not playing ready golf. None of which would be impacted by a shorter course.
Fewer lost balls? Will this new, reigned in equipment also guarantee that you find the fairway? If not then I don't see how it will reduce the number of lost balls.
As for playing all your clubs again, surely if you can't hit the ball as far but as a consequence they shorten the length of the course then the status quo will prevail and nothing will change in that respect.

 

[Crow]

Mid to high handicap golfer's shouldn't able to hit a par 4 in 2 shots? Are you for real? The majority of golfers are mid to high handicap golfer's.
As for saving time. The only time that will save is the time is takes to walk an extra 40 yards a hole because I'll still be waiting on the tee box all the same.
I'm guessing your not very long off the tee? And maybe a seasoned golfer?

I think if golfers out there are struggling to enjoy the game because they can't reach a 450 yard par 4 in two the answer lies in allowing them to play a shorter course and allowing others to play a longer course. The answer is not to make all of us play a short course to give the tappers a chance

You missed out the "long" when I was talking about not reaching par 4s.
When hitting modern clubs I'm longer than average, if by seasoned you mean old then yes, I'm on the wrong side of 55.
Where does it say golfers are struggling to enjoy the game because they can't reach a 450 yard par 4 in two?
With limited equipment a shorter course will test even the big boys such as yourself, I suspect you're just afraid to try it.

 

[Crow]

Most courses lengths are 5800 to 6500...at least they are in the amateur game
The number of club players who overpower courses is almost as small as the number of Tour Pros that do the same.
Ask the majority of club players and I can almost guarantee none will say they should be hitting it shorter.
This is a Pro/Elite player problem.

When I first typed the course length I had 6,200 instead of 6,500 but I thought that might scare a few people.
Many club players overpower courses, it's just happened gradually so you've not noticed.
I agree that almost no club players will agree with me, that's because they've got used to hitting a certain length but, in my view, that length has become far too long.
It's a problem for most golfers and it isn't going away.

 

[Crow]

Reading this I'm struggling to agree which much of it at all.
The high handicappers that I play with can't reach Par 4's in two now.
Shorter course equal quicker rounds. In my experience slow play comes from 3 key areas. Faffing about on the greens with lines on golf balls being one example. Looking for lost balls and not playing ready golf. None of which would be impacted by a shorter course.
Fewer lost balls? Will this new, reigned in equipment also guarantee that you find the fairway? If not then I don't see how it will reduce the number of lost balls.
As for playing all your clubs again, surely if you can't hit the ball as far but as a consequence they shorten the length of the course then the status quo will prevail and nothing will change in that respect.

The high handicappers that I play with can't reach Par 4's in two now.

• Long par 4s should only be reached in two by good players, not average.

Shorter course equal quicker rounds. In my experience slow play comes from 3 key areas. Faffing about on the greens with lines on golf balls being one example. Looking for lost balls and not playing ready golf. None of which would be impacted by a shorter course.

• Even if what you say is the only reason for long rounds you'll still be walking 500 or 600 less yards.

Fewer lost balls? Will this new, reigned in equipment also guarantee that you find the fairway? If not then I don't see how it will reduce the number of lost balls.

• Shorter drives don't go so far into the rough, less time looking for lost balls, fewer lost balls.

As for playing all your clubs again, surely if you can't hit the ball as far but as a consequence they shorten the length of the course then the status quo will prevail and nothing will change in that respect.

• That would require a m=far greater shortening of the course than is necessary.

Anyway, I'm aware that I'm at odds with 95% or more of golfers on this so I won't add any more to the discussion.