QC but no bunkers and PL

[Lord Tyrion]

Played today, all bunkers GUR and preferred lies on the fairway. My score has turned up on EG. I queried it and they said it is still a qualifier.

Is that correct? Has the ruling changed there?

I thought if all bunkers were GUR then they couldn't be

 

[Colin L]

Preferred lies in the winter season, yes, but it used to be that if all or even a proportion of bunkers were GUR you couldn't submit a score. But who am I, one of yesterday's men, to give a definitive answer?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I’m sure it was changed recently where it didn’t matter how many bunkers were GUR the course could still be acceptable for HC scores

From winter checklist

"Providing a Local Rule is in place, bunkers may be taken out of play and marked as GUR for situations such as severe or prolonged wet weather. Bunkers flooded with water, can be marked as GUR; allowing scores to still be acceptable and returned for handicap purposes. Players must be made aware of which bunkers are GUR before play. There is no limit on the number of bunkers that can be taken ‘out of play’."

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I’m sure it was changed recently where it didn’t matter how many bunkers were GUR the course could still be acceptable for HC scores

I wished I'd have known. I was a bit blase today because I thought it didn't matter. I took on shots I might otherwise have not. Ultimately, it doesn't, it will be one of my 12, but I would have taken a bit more care had I known.

 

[IanM]

General rule of thumb now, everything is probably a qualifier.

I got a penalty score added last week, I only went to the club for Sunday Lunch!!

 

[jim8flog]

I can say it is a definite yes but cannot find the relevant chapter and verse at the moment.

 

[woofers]

I can say it is a definite yes but cannot find the relevant chapter and verse at the moment.

https://static.whsplatform.englandgolf.org/clubs/1000-1/uploads/downloads/whs/adverse-weather-guidance-2025.pdf?_gl=1*1gaq78l*_ga*MjExODg5NjUyNC4xNzQ1NDE0NzUw*_ga_CD8SEJ9D3M*czE3NjAyMDQyODYkbzc2JGcxJHQxNzYwMjA0NDI2JGo2MCRsMCRoMTU4NjM4NjAzMA..

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[Swango1980]

Got to make sure I play the Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa when all bunkers are GUR.

Great chance to get handicap cuts

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Do clubs bring in PLs when in truth and fact Pick and Replace is all that is required. P&R is way less ‘flexible’ than PLs for ‘teeing’ the ball up on fairway grass and it is that that for me changes things for the round being QC.

 

[rulefan]

Do clubs bring in PLs when in truth and fact Pick and Replace is all that is required. P&R is way less ‘flexible’ than PLs for ‘teeing’ the ball up on fairway grass and it is that that for me changes things for the round being QC.

Very likely.

 

[jim8flog]

Do clubs bring in PLs when in truth and fact Pick and Replace is all that is required.

That is a bit simplistic.

An additional rule we have under 'winter rules'

When mats are in place on the tees, players must stand on the mat to play their shots.

Others will have rules regarding use of fairways mats.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That is a bit simplistic.

An additional rule we have under 'winter rules'

When mats are in place on the tees, players must stand on the mat to play their shots.

Others will have rules regarding use of fairways mats.

Indeed, but for playing from the fairway when protection of the fairway is not really the objective but balls pick up muck, P&R is all that is required - and that is very different from PLs.

 

[jim8flog]

Indeed, but for playing from the fairway when protection of the fairway is not really the objective but balls pick up muck, P&R is all that is required - and that is very different from PLs.

and how does this relate to all bunkers being declared GUR

 

[jim8flog]

https://static.whsplatform.englandgolf.org/clubs/1000-1/uploads/downloads/whs/adverse-weather-guidance-2025.pdf?_gl=1*1gaq78l*_ga*MjExODg5NjUyNC4xNzQ1NDE0NzUw*_ga_CD8SEJ9D3M*czE3NjAyMDQyODYkbzc2JGcxJHQxNzYwMjA0NDI2JGo2MCRsMCRoMTU4NjM4NjAzMA..

page 4

Thanks for that but I had seen it before that document came out. It was already a Handicap guidance rule

 

[srixon 1]

Got to make sure I play the Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa when all bunkers are GUR.

Great chance to get handicap cuts

They’re going to need a lot of white paint

 

[jim8flog]

https://static.whsplatform.englandgolf.org/clubs/1000-1/uploads/downloads/whs/adverse-weather-guidance-2025.pdf?_gl=1*1gaq78l*_ga*MjExODg5NjUyNC4xNzQ1NDE0NzUw*_ga_CD8SEJ9D3M*czE3NjAyMDQyODYkbzc2JGcxJHQxNzYwMjA0NDI2JGo2MCRsMCRoMTU4NjM4NjAzMA..

page 4

From a thread I started in 2022 on a similar topic I found the link to the appropriate EG guide but it longer works so presumably taken out with the new document.

 

[clubchamp98]

Is the slope rating of the course altered by this ( no bunkers)?

Surely they are a big part of the difficulty of most courses.

 

[woofers]

Is the slope rating of the course altered by this ( no bunkers)?

Surely they are a big part of the difficulty of most courses.

Nope, if became that easy the PCC would kick in?

 

[D-S]

Nope, if became that easy the PCC would kick in?

I understand the point but the Hotchkin has a slope of 149 off the yellows and 151 off the whites - some of the highest values in the country. CR of 72.5 and 74.4, course length 6522 and 6869 respectively . Both these numbers reflect that a significant proportion of the difficulty of that course in particular is the bunkering, position, depth and the sheer number.
If you rated that courses and didn’t factor in the bunkers it would be considerably less, my assumption is that the CR would be slightly lower but the BR and therefore slope would be distinctly different.
In rating courses we spend a lot of time assessing bunker location to landing areas, depth, positioning, proportion of green surrounded by bunkers, whether they need to be carried etc. etc. Just saying that if they are all out of play and PCC will sort it seems to render a lot of effort as futile.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

and how does this relate to all bunkers being declared GUR

Subject matter of the thread includes the words...and PL