public sector pay protests

[Ethan]

The MP salary is a red herring. When you add in the expenses, the value of the pensions and other benefits, and more importantly the fact that many of them go on to lucrative directorships by exploiting their contacts and knowledge of the process, it is easy to see why someone in power recently described being an MP as simply the internship for the real money making career.

As for public sector employees, I fully support their right to take IA. They have been screwed by the Govt in recent years who have broken pay agreements and eroded their pensions because of the effects of faulty Govt policy in sucking up to the City. Yet the City boys haven't suffered much. The mistake the unions are making is making the IA so mild that it only inconveniences their colleagues and doesn't affect the Govt. Much more is needed.

The NHS is suffering disastrous and irreversible change. Many GPs in their 50s are taking early retirement or cutting their hours and fewer trainee GPs are willing to fill their shoes. There is a major crisis looming. I don't blame them. I know a few GPs and the job has turned into a box ticking, policy adhering bureaucratic nightmare with every day bringing a whining scare story in the Daily Wail. the idea, of course, is to soften GPs up for transfer to private healthcare organisations, such as United Health, the former (and probably future) company of the current head of NHS England.

 

[delc]

The Government seems to have forgotten the Keynesian principle that workers are also consumers. If you keep screwing down wages, people will have less disposable income to spend on goods and services, so the companies that provide them either go under and their employees will be thrown out of work, or else their profits will cut and they will have to squeeze the incomes of their workers. It's a vicious circle. The Government can only raise taxes on profits and incomes, so their take is reduced at the same time as they have to pay out more in unemployment benefit and income support. That is why austerity is not reducing the fiscal deficit!

 

[SocketRocket]

The Government seems to have forgotten the Keynesian principle that workers are also consumers. If you keep screwing down wages, people will have less disposable income to spend on goods and services, so the companies that provide them either go under and their employees will be thrown out of work, or else their profits will cut and they will have to squeeze the incomes of their workers. It's a vicious circle. The Government can only raise taxes on profits and incomes, so their take is reduced at the same time as they have to pay out more in unemployment benefit and income support. That is why austerity is not reducing the fiscal deficit!

Are you sure of that?

 

[USER1999]

Just who exactly are "they". You do realize who has been marching today don't you (Marching, not Striking. In their own time as well).

'They' are doctors, nurses, firemen, civil servants, policemen, any one employed by the council, particularly bin men, teachers, and social workers (top of my list). It's a free market. If you don't like the pay and conditions, go and get another job. Just like every body else.

 

[Scouser]

'They' are doctors, nurses, firemen, civil servants, policemen, any one employed by the council, particularly bin men, teachers, and social workers (top of my list). It's a free market. If you don't like the pay and conditions, go and get another job. Just like every body else.

A very sweeping statement. Some of those jobs require specific training and qualifications that are non transferable... More to the point if every one left those jobs how do u think you would survive.... A sweeping and very stupid statement


Edit... Teachers and more likely binmen are unlikely to be employed by a local authority now

 

[bluewolf]

'They' are doctors, nurses, firemen, civil servants, policemen, any one employed by the council, particularly bin men, teachers, and social workers (top of my list). It's a free market. If you don't like the pay and conditions, go and get another job. Just like every body else.

they dont want to change jobs. They want fair recognition for the job that they already do. Is that not what you want? Or do you change job every year?

this glib recital of the old "change jobs if you don't like it" is particularly pathetic and shows no recognition of either the job market or jobs which could be considered a "calling". It also plays particularly well into the hands of the Right Wing Political Establishment who are particularly fond of not practising what they preach.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

they dont want to change jobs. They want fair recognition for the job that they already do. Is that not what you want? Or do you change job every year?

this glib recital of the old "change jobs if you don't like it" is particularly pathetic and shows no recognition of either the job market or jobs which could be considered a "calling". It also plays particularly well into the hands of the Right Wing Political Establishment who are particularly fond of not practising what they preach.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A very sweeping statement. Some of those jobs require specific training and qualifications that are non transferable... More to the point if every one left those jobs how do u think you would survive.... A sweeping and very stupid statement


Edit... Teachers and more likely binmen are unlikely to be employed by a local authority now

I agree. Three years training to be a nurse is not going to give transferable skills into anything other than a nursing role in the private sector where there may be more money around although in nursing that's debatable in the current climate.

 

[USER1999]

No job should be considered a calling. They are all jobs. That's it.

 

[SocketRocket]

It seems that it's OK for Nurses, Doctors and so forth to go into the private health sector for more money (Profit) but akin to genocide if anyone suggest putting NHS services to private contractors.

Back to Public sector pay and job benefits. They seem to still have a better overall package than similar private sector workers.

There are some jobs like Nurses that most people believe should be kept in line but many others dont hold the same sympathies.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No job should be considered a calling. They are all jobs. That's it.

Thatd a very cold way of looking at it - a lot of people see them as more than just jobs with pride attached to it along other things

I didnt think of my time in the RAF as "just a job" - it was lifestyle and one i enjoyed and was very proud of doing

Would think a lot of jobs in the public service are like that - people do like providing a service for the public

 

[SocketRocket]

Thatd a very cold way of looking at it - a lot of people see them as more than just jobs with pride attached to it along other things

I didnt think of my time in the RAF as "just a job" - it was lifestyle and one i enjoyed and was very proud of doing

Would think a lot of jobs in the public service are like that - people do like providing a service for the public

Thats not unique to the public sector.

Is it fair to expect people doing similar work on lower wages to pay more tax so PHS employees are better off than them?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thats not unique to the public sector.

Is it fair to expect people doing similar work on lower wages to pay more tax so PHS employees are better off than them?

When has anyone suggested people do that ?

 

[Scouser]

No job should be considered a calling. They are all jobs. That's it.

I agree but like I said before the world would be a far worse place without some of the jobs

 

[USER1999]

I agree but like I said before the world would be a far worse place without some of the jobs

Sure, but there are jobs that I would rather do, that don't put food on the table.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thats not unique to the public sector.

Is it fair to expect people doing similar work on lower wages to pay more tax so PHS employees are better off than them?

Not sure that has been suggested. If other workers are on low wages why would they be taxed more so PHS employees are better off? Income tax is purely that (income) and not job related. Now if you'd said overpaid MP's being taxed more to benefit public sector employees...!

 

[SocketRocket]

Not sure that has been suggested. If other workers are on low wages why would they be taxed more so PHS employees are better off? Income tax is purely that (income) and not job related. Now if you'd said overpaid MP's being taxed more to benefit public sector employees...!

This talk of overpaid MPs is not a serious proposal, if you stopped paying them it would not create enough to do anything. What I meant Homer was that to increase Public sector wages other people will have to pay more tax to fund it and is that fair if they are paid less? People are losing sight of the fact that we have to borrow money to pay the current bill.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was being facetious, although I do think they are overpaid and can't really justify voting themselves another 5% increase or whatever it was they gave themselves.

 

[Scouser]

Sure, but there are jobs that I would rather do, that don't put food on the table.

But without those jobs... Dr's nurses firemen... There may be a day u can no longer put food on the table

 

[sandmagnet]

Depends which jobs are being cut.

Far too many "govt funded" organisations had ridiculous amounts of middle managers added during the new labour era, which ultimately add little or nothing to the overall, strip all of these back out and use the savings to fund those doing the work at the coalface imho

oh and dont get me started on "consultants"

This:thup: