Proud dad thread but?

[Deleted member 21784]

Nope, that’s is the worry, but no proof, statistics show the guns are already in the hands of the criminals, do all the Countries who have armed police have that issue?

It’s not something that could hapoen over night, it would take years, you need to train them, some Coppers currently serving have no wish to be armed and they should be respected and allowed to finish their careers unarmed, as new Coppers are taken on, arm them, eventually all will be armed.

I believe we are living in a dream world if we think we’ll never have a fully armed Police Force.

Another reason it will not happen for many years is sheer costs

Costs of arming them
Cost of training them
Cost of defending them in court when someone’s family sue’s for unlawful shooting

 

[Tashyboy]

Not going off topic but me daughter asked to borrow me alpha male black and decker drill the other day. Not a cat in hells chance. You can hold a heckler and Koch and Glock but i dont trust you with a drill. Spent all day putting up two blinds. 😖

 

[MegaSteve]

Here's hoping Omni Consumer Products never get the gig...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is something I have thought long and hard about, do I think being armed would of made a difference to the 2 you mentioned, yes I do . However other people would post/put up links to other incidents where people have been shot holding a chair leg or other items.

Me personally, I would not want to be armed, there are also officers I don't trust with a stapler never mind a gun. However that doesn't make my view right. If it was made compulsory to carry a firearm then yes I would , however if given the choice at the moment my answer would be no.

I respect your opinion entirely, especially with you being on the job and you’ve said the same previously.

I don’t think you’s are given the correct resources, you’re underfunded and not paid enough.

Putting lone Coppers unarmed out on patrol is wrong for me.

The only small thing I would not agree with is the ones you couldn’t trust with a stapler , we had those in the Army and they were trained!!

You are probably aware (Tashy can ask the daughter) of the level of training given and the standard people need to pass to qualify, no one is advocating every Copper being given a firearm next time they report for duty.

 

[Tashyboy]

Another reason it will not happen for many years is sheer costs

Costs of arming them
Cost of training them
Cost of defending them in court when someone’s family sue’s for unlawful shooting

1, half if that is met by local pilice force budget so government aint bothered. Even though its there policy.
2, to arm some
Of them training had gone from 12 weeks to 6 weeks. Other countries manage it.
3, cost to defend in court. Dont think thats even a factor. Yet.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Another reason it will not happen for many years is sheer costs

Costs of arming them
Cost of training them
Cost of defending them in court when someone’s family sue’s for unlawful shooting

What about the cost to replace the murdered Copper or the pension to look after their family or the cost of keeping the murderer locked up for years,

Not everything should be finance driven, some things are more valuable than money.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

1, half if that is met by local pilice force budget so government aint bothered. Even though its there policy.
2, to arm some
Of them training had gone from 12 weeks to 6 weeks. Other countries manage it.
3, cost to defend in court. Dont think thats even a factor. Yet.

Sorry tash normally agree with you but other countries manage it? Other countries have much larger populations so more tax to pay for such things.

Also the government keeps peddling that we are skint

 

[Deleted member 21784]

What about the cost to replace the murdered Copper or the pension to look after their family or the cost of keeping the murderer locked up for years,

Not everything should be finance driven, some things are more valuable than money.

Afraid in a ideal world it would work like that but it simply doesn’t.

Tell that to network rail that were told to install train stops at every signal (a safety system to apply brakes if passed at danger) they looked into the cost and decided it was cheaper to pay the compo to the families who those who die in an accident because of this instead of installing them.

Everything is cost driven.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Afraid in a ideal world it would work like that but it simply doesn’t.

Tell that to network rail that were told to install train stops at every signal (a safety system to apply brakes if passed at danger) they looked into the cost and decided it was cheaper to pay the compo to the families who those who die in an accident because of this instead of installing them.

Everything is cost driven.

Your first post was nothing to do with cost, it was about escalation in gun carrying criminals if we armed the Police.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Your first post was nothing to do with cost, it was about escalation in gun carrying criminals if we armed the Police.

To which I have added another reason? What exactly is wrong with that?

You arm the police and watch gun crime rise. Criminals will have to arm themselves to react to the change.

No matter what you do people don’t go oh no I’m gonna be a good lad now.. they adapt and find a way around it. So you would just get more criminals carrying guns.

Jazz it up whatever way you want guns in the hands of the police (normal officers) will have an adverse affect to what we would be trying to solve

Btw to tash massive respect to your daughter. Specially in this day where hardly anyone wants to be armed because of the support they get when it goes wrong. She is a true hero.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

To which I have added another reason? What exactly is wrong with that?

You arm the police and watch gun crime rise. Criminals will have to arm themselves to react to the change.

No matter what you do people don’t go oh no I’m gonna be a good lad now.. they adapt and find a way around it. So you would just get more criminals carrying guns.

Jazz it up whatever way you want guns in the hands of the police (normal officers) will have an adverse affect to what we would be trying to solve

Btw to tash massive respect to your daughter. Specially in this day where hardly anyone wants to be armed because of the support they get when it goes wrong. She is a true hero.

The weapons are already here, it’s the Police and Intelligence Agencies trying to play catch up.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ce-struggle-to-stop-flood-of-firearms-into-uk

I’m not sure what you base your “You arm the police and watch gun crime rise. Criminals will have to arm themselves to react to the change.” words on apart from a gut feeling.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Armed police in certain places and hot spots , also during certain events

But no way should every one of them should be armed. There is no need at all

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Armed police in certain places and hot spots , also during certain events

But no way should every one of them should be armed. There is no need at all

That’s exactly what we have now, you see armed police around London in key places all the time. Outside new Scotland yard
At airports

Hub situations that need it

Not to protect Mavis from ramsgate doing her local shop

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That’s exactly what we have now, you see armed police around London in key places all the time. Outside new Scotland yard
At airports

Hub situations that need it

Not to protect Mavis from ramsgate doing her local shop

We don’t have enough Police to look after Mavis.

Very few if gun incidents happen in these busy areas were Coppers are armed, the reason? There are armed Coppers there! Arming the Coppers works. Plus they are mainly there as a deterrent to Terrorists looking for the high profile target.
Probably don’t get a more protected building than the HoC and a Copper was murdered there as he went up against a terrorist with a baton!

Most criminal related incidents happen away from these areas, were the normal Coppers aren’t armed but those are the ones first on scene.

 

[Midnight]

I respect your opinion entirely, especially with you being on the job and you’ve said the same previously.

I don’t think you’s are given the correct resources, you’re underfunded and not paid enough.

Putting lone Coppers unarmed out on patrol is wrong for me.

The only small thing I would not agree with is the ones you couldn’t trust with a stapler , we had those in the Army and they were trained!!

You are probably aware (Tashy can ask the daughter) of the level of training given and the standard people need to pass to qualify, no one is advocating every Copper being given a firearm next time they report for duty.

Ok , I take back the stapler bit 😁

I would agree with everything you have said reference under staffed, the amount of officers that actually cover a large city is frightening. The levels have dropped so much and there seems to be more to deal with.

As you quite rightly said , I do know about the training and I along with other handlers attend every firearms job .
One of my main worries with the training is that this would leave even less officers on patrol, there would also have to be requalification done as well as regular training. Bear in mind that some forces are still trying to catch up and issue all officers Tazer, this has been going on ages and there are still loads who haven't been pencilled in for a course yet , god knows how long it would take to sort out Firearms for all regular officers.
We then also have to think about Specials who regularly come and patrol for nothing. What about PCSO ? It becomes a nightmare mate.

I have no idea what the answer is , something has to be done but I don't know what ?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

We don’t have enough Police to look after Mavis.

Very few if gun incidents happen in these busy areas were Coppers are armed, the reason? There are armed Coppers there! Arming the Coppers works. Plus they are mainly there as a deterrent to Terrorists looking for the high profile target.
Probably don’t get a more protected building than the HoC and a Copper was murdered there as he went up against a terrorist with a baton!

Most criminal related incidents happen away from these areas, were the normal Coppers aren’t armed but those are the ones first on scene.

Are they a deterrent? France has had a few terrorist attacks and their police are armed I believe?

America has had a fair share of attack’s and their armed

We had terror attack in London armed police were on scene within 5 min wasn’t it? Think that’s quick enough

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Are they a deterrent? France has had a few terrorist attacks and their police are armed I believe?

America has had a fair share of attack’s and their armed

We had terror attack in London armed police were on scene within 5 min wasn’t it? Think that’s quick enough

They weren’t on the scene quick enough though, they weren’t the closest Copper, the unarmed have to wait for the Armed Response Units while the terrorist continues to kill or do as Keith Palmer did and lose his life taking one on with a baton.

All these terrorist attacks, how many have been away from the main areas? Borough Market? The Underground.

None of these terrorists or criminals take on an Armed Copper face to face, is that possibly because of the danger they’d face.

 

[MegaSteve]

Funds not guns...

 

[Deleted member 21784]

They weren’t on the scene quick enough though, they weren’t the closest Copper, the unarmed have to wait for the Armed Response Units while the terrorist continues to kill or do as Keith Palmer did and lose his life taking one on with a baton.

All these terrorist attacks, how many have been away from the main areas? Borough Market? The Underground.

None of these terrorists or criminals take on an Armed Copper face to face, is that possibly because of the danger they’d face.

How many recent terror attacks on the tube? Bombings are old school.. too easy to get caught

 

[SocketRocket]

To quote commissioner Gordon in batman begins

We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar...they buy armor-piercing rounds.

The knife issue in the uk is bad enough we don’t need to encourage escalation to guns

I disagree with this line of thinking. We have already seen Police killed due to them having to defend against terrorists with batons and pepper spray, we have also seen the public killed and maimed because the police couldn't protect them. This argument that if the police are armed the criminals will use automatic weapons is a red herring, look at the evidence rather than supposition. Countries like Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Switzerland have armed Police, do we see criminals in these countries spraying them with automatic rifle fire? The evidence is this doesn't happen but it does make people think twice before challenging police authority and carrying knives and guns. We dont live in a Britain where Dixon of dock green or Z cars patrol our streets, we live in a Britain where people are knifed or shot almost every day in our cities. If it was you faced with an assailant carrying a knife or gun how would you like to be armed, would a baton and pepper spray make you feel safe.