Dan2501
Tour Winner
Dreadful tackle, and 100% a red. Not sure how it's defendable tbh, could have done some serious damage.
Piece
Tour Winner
I need to address some items...
Stayed up comfortably since we re-joined the Prem, so don't see how finishing lower mid-table is 'massively over achieving'
In fact its the opposite. We have a structure in place that allows coach (not manager, BTW) changes without direct affect on the club. It's a high reason why we've stayed up comfortably.
There is some truth in this. Last few years we've mixed up our play, often going long to Deeney. However, we have got to find another identity post-Deeney and this is what we are struggling with now.
The lack of investment in the defence has meant it has been coming for a while. I called this out several years ago. I am hoping in blind faith that we reverse our usual and have a strong second half to the season.
We dipped that crucial 10% after the semi-final win. It hasn't been the same since then. The disappointing thing is that we started the season the same as we ended it, so no real surprise we are where we are if we are doing the same things and being complacent. We can't keep relying on the attack bailing us out when the defence is so poor. And yes, Dawson is/was never the answer. 99% of WFC fans want/ed big money spent on two quality centre halves as a minimum. This has to change in the next transfer window or QSF turns Dawson into VVD overnight.
As I've said above, JG and QSF to me are very similar. Being honest QSF is a strange choice. He is similar to JG in my eyes, but both have been handicapped by a poor defence. We have to change how we play and the personnel. Currently we are playing the same way and expecting a different result. QSF was brought in because of "unfinished business" and to "sort out the defence". I'm not convinced to put it mildly...happy to be proven wrong.
Stayed up comfortably since we re-joined the Prem, so don't see how finishing lower mid-table is 'massively over achieving'
In fact its the opposite. We have a structure in place that allows coach (not manager, BTW) changes without direct affect on the club. It's a high reason why we've stayed up comfortably.
There is some truth in this. Last few years we've mixed up our play, often going long to Deeney. However, we have got to find another identity post-Deeney and this is what we are struggling with now.
The lack of investment in the defence has meant it has been coming for a while. I called this out several years ago. I am hoping in blind faith that we reverse our usual and have a strong second half to the season.
We dipped that crucial 10% after the semi-final win. It hasn't been the same since then. The disappointing thing is that we started the season the same as we ended it, so no real surprise we are where we are if we are doing the same things and being complacent. We can't keep relying on the attack bailing us out when the defence is so poor. And yes, Dawson is/was never the answer. 99% of WFC fans want/ed big money spent on two quality centre halves as a minimum. This has to change in the next transfer window or QSF turns Dawson into VVD overnight.
As I've said above, JG and QSF to me are very similar. Being honest QSF is a strange choice. He is similar to JG in my eyes, but both have been handicapped by a poor defence. We have to change how we play and the personnel. Currently we are playing the same way and expecting a different result. QSF was brought in because of "unfinished business" and to "sort out the defence". I'm not convinced to put it mildly...happy to be proven wrong.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Point made I think. Who knew that the colour of the player's shirt can influence your entire attitude towards tackling?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I'd certainly say defence is the major issue - hardly surprising given you've conceded 20 times already. I can't understand how Mariappa was is getting games when you've been back in the Prem several years. Cathcart I would describe as 'reasonable' and yet he's your best option. Holebas is 35 and a walking yellow card. I think in midfield as well, while Capoue and Doucoure are good players, I wouldn't really say either of them is a traditional defence holding player offering a great deal of protection to the back line. Chalobah seems to be taking an age to develop, or perhaps just isn't being given enough chances? Or maybe he's not really that sort of player either? Anyway, I'd say you need three players minimum in Jan - a Premier League CB who's not already 30, a good left back, and a defensive minded holding midfielder.
Piece
Tour Winner
Mariappa is, was, never in a million years a centre half of Prem quality. He is a Champ defender, at best. All our centre halves are of the same standard meaning not quite good enough for mid table Prem league. Holebas is not a QSF favourite and I think he will disappear soon. He's lost a yard of pace and his delivery is now poor. Caps and Doucs were doing a three man job and has taken its toll. I've been shouting for a three man holding-type midfield, the extra being Cleverley or Chalobah. Clevs has been added very recently but in a no. 10 role...not what we need. Chalobah hasn't been given many chances, presumably because he hasn't been fully fit...no excuse now and I'd like to see him in.
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have to win the next home games I think against Sheffield United and Bournemouth. Clearly some defensive issues and reminiscent of Fulham last year. Some decent players but a lack of defensive leadership and fortitude proved expensive and impossible to keep having to get 2-3 goals a game to make up for the number shipped at the back.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
They would be fine if they played Arsenal every week.
Piece
Tour Winner
I don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
No, you definitely have to win. You're already 3 points adrift of the rest of the teams, and Sheff Utd being a newly promoted side makes it a must win to turn things around. Every week you don't win it gets harder and harder. If you only get 1 or 2 points from the next two games you could be in the drop zone for a long, long time.I don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business.
OK, "have to win" is a cliched phrase and I take your point but it needs a win somewhere to change momentum and self-belief and home games are vitally important for picking up points towards any survival target. Can't see you getting anything away to Spurs (but there again not overly convinced by them at present) and just know from watching Fulham lose more and more touch how hard it is to then string a run of results together. I happen to think there is a mini league from Southampton down and enough potential to pick up point from those sides to get yourself safeI don't think we "have to win" these games. I'm not a fan of this expression as it heaps to much emphasis on one particular game. I'd rather see it as another chance to get things moving in the right direction. If we played well and do the right things, then the results will start to turn. Sheff Utd will be tough and I think we may lose but I'm looking at the performance and what we are trying to do rather than the result. And yes, I know its a results business.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I’m not sure what “point†you think you have made but lll clear a few things up for youPoint made I think. Who knew that the colour of the player's shirt can influence your entire attitude towards tackling?
As I initially stated I saw a quick replay of the incident and from that it looked a clean but hard tackle hence my questions , I also heard the same sort of opinion on various phone ins hence asking was it actually a red card.
As for the Kompany tackle - from what I remember he was off the ground two footed with one foot going over the ball connecting with Mane was it ?
Now I have seen a report from Robbie Savage who has said something along the lines of what Fundy said and also what i questioned , also heard the guys on Talksport again this morning discussing the merits of the red card and questioning tackles on the ground where people can’t stop their follow through.
Now looking at the still above it doesn’t look great and that’s the follow through because of the force , you see a number of those stills after forceful tackle
I’m watching MOTD 2 tonight so will no doubt have a better look at it - but either way it’s just an opinion.
Dan2501
Tour Winner
It's a shocker. Red all day.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I think that's the closest we'll get to a Boris style "I got that a little wrong" 
Dan2501
Tour Winner
This is the Kompany one for comparison, at least I think it is (ignore the dreadful caption). Very similar, impact of the Hayden one looks worse as the Leicester lad was in no position to attempt to hurdle it. The 2nd replay angle makes it look like a real leg breaker.
Piece
Tour Winner
No, disagree. Newcastle and West Ham showed last season you can start poorly and recover quickly. We shouldn't put unnecessary pressure where it's not really needed. A must-win game is needing to win to stay up!
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Well the best defence I can offer you is that you haven't remembered it perfectly. Kompany's tackle was slightly lower to the ground I would say, while Hayden's was high and subsequently quite a bit worse - although it wasn't on a Liverpool player I suppose.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Ok seen that now and ill be on the same page as Fundy
It looks bad because he has gone in with a lot of force with his leg to get the ball , intent i guess will be key and he certainly looked like he really wanted to. The force makes it the red in the rules now because it wasnt studs up or jumping or two footed etc but it becomes dangerous because of the force the player used
Below is exactly my feelings as well
10 years ago its not even a foul! i struggle with these being called horrible tackles, he plays the ball at force and the follow through is deemed dangerous, is his foot supposed to stop the second he kicks the ball? i know by the letter of the law its a red card, its the law i dont agree with
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Well the best defence I can offer you is that you haven't remembered it perfectly. Kompany's tackle was slightly lower to the ground I would say, while Hayden's was high and subsequently quite a bit worse - although it wasn't on a Liverpool player I suppose.
Maybe you need to stop trying to be a smart arse and have a look at both the videos - even the still above shows Kompany jumping in the air to go at the ball where as from the video Dan posted Hayden goes into the ball not from jumping in the air but the force brings him up into the player. Either way its a shame that when you arrive back any sort of mature debate goes out the window.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
You both think the rules should allow players to endanger their opponents with potential leg breaks? Interesting opinion that.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Both were not great but Kompany's was a yellow for me while Hayden's was a stonewall red. Kompany actually made the challenge with one foot not two, and it was certainly lower to the ground, just mistimed. For you to have demanded a red for that but say Hayden's should be allowed is backward at best.
