practice swings in the rough - sything the grass?

[slugger]

We were watching the golf at the weekend and my father asked a good question...

Someone was taking a shot from the rough in the long whispy stuff.

"What's to stop them taking practice swings above the ball and cutting some of the grass away letting them get an easier swing at the ball for the proper shot?"

I suggested that there might not be a penalty as long as they didn't move the ball or improve the lie... morally i'd say it's wrong though.

Is there any rule that forbids against this sort of thing.

 

[Twire]

That would be improving their lie.......which is against the rules.

 

[brendy]

You arnt allowed to improve your lie, same goes for taking practice swings and dislodging leaves and branches. Golf is a game of integrity, if you cheat, you may get away with it but if you get caught, noone will ever go round with you again.

 

[slugger]

When you say dislodging branches, does that mean like branches that are no longer connected to a tree?

 

[Twire]

Here you go slugger


13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line
of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the
hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,
• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including
immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or
other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a
stroke and the stroke is made,
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing
ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the
teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing
damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.

 

[Twire]

When you say dislodging branches, does that mean like branches that are no longer connected to a tree?

No, if you were to move loose impediments from around your ball without moving your ball it's not a problem (except you can't do this in a hazzard)

But say you were under the canopy of a tree, and you dislodged a leaf or branch with your PRACTICE swing then that is a penalty. If you did it on your intended swing, then thats ok.

 

[brendy]

Slugger, say you were under a tree/bush, you can only break/dislodge leaves or branches in the act of the proper swing ie you cant take a wild hack of a practice swing to make a clear path for the club whether on purpose or not. I think its a shot penalty if you do. If the branch was already dead, I believe you are well within your rights to move any dead debris while making sure not to move the ball in doing so.

 

[slugger]

All good info...

I mustn't have been in deep enough rough to encounter any of this!

About the below:
"However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,"

Does this mean that if i ground my club "lightly" behind the ball in the rough and the ball then moves, that there is no penalty? Likewise with taking my stance? Or does that just refer to whatever is round about the ball and if the ball moves there is a penalty?

Thanks for your time. There's a lot to learn in this game!

 

[brendy]

I honestly cant answer that precise question, I would always pit it against "am I improving my lie or chances of moving the ball more accurately"
If the answer is yes then its a stroke penalty.

 

[Twire]

All good info...

I mustn't have been in deep enough rough to encounter any of this!

About the below:
"However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,"

Does this mean that if i ground my club "lightly" behind the ball in the rough and the ball then moves, that there is no penalty? Likewise with taking my stance? Or does that just refer to whatever is round about the ball and if the ball moves there is a penalty?

Thanks for your time. There's a lot to learn in this game!

If the ball moves, it has to be replaced under penalty of one stroke..........and that's if your in the rough or fairway.The only time it's not a penalty is if your on the tee box.

 

[ericsonnycon]

Talking of improving lies, do you guys think Kenny Perry should have been penalised for this earlier this year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv9OeVK6w88

 

[Tommo21]

Talking of improving lies, do you guys think Kenny Perry should have been penalised for this earlier this year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv9OeVK6w88

This has already been discussed and in my years of golf I’ve never seen something so blatant as this, it’s outrageous. He clearly tamps down the grass about 5 times, you could hardly see the ball at first and he’s not even addressing the ball. He’s only using one hand so you cant say he’s gently pressing it down at address.

Any other player would look at the lie, move a couple of feet away, have a few swishes through the rough then gently place the club behind the ball and play the shot.

It’s out and out cheating of the highest order.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Definitely cheating in my book as I think I said at the time. Don't like rednecks like Perry who think their country boy image is some kind of excuse to behave as they see fit and not as they should

 

[ericsonnycon]

Exactly what I thought at the time, the odd thing was the eyes of the golfing world were on him as it was live on tv, in a playoff of a tour event, and he got away with it! you wouldn't expect that off your mate playing a friendly round on a Saturday morning yet alone a pro.

 

[viscount17]

the problem is that they do expect to get away with it -

An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved <u>without unreasonable effort</u>, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise it is an immovable obstruction.

ring any bells?

 

[ericsonnycon]

point taken