Politics/life too complex for Joe Public?

[SocketRocket]

What's the issue with self-employed?
Happy for anyone not paying tax to be targeted.

Not an issue just balance. I hear a lot about people that earn high salaries being critized for avoiding tax but I would hazard a guess that most tax avoidance is from self employed people, you see it everywhere, this price if you want an invoice, that price for cash in hand.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Not an issue just balance. I hear a lot about people that earn high salaries being critized for avoiding tax but I would hazard a guess that most tax avoidance is from self employed people, you see it everywhere, this price if you want an invoice, that price for cash in hand.

I don't doubt that doing things "cash in hand" goes on, or rather I know it goes on, but to say that most tax avoidance is because of that is just blinkered. Most tax avoidance is done by people, accountancies and companies who know the rules, how to work them and where to put monies so that it isn't counted. To blame the one man band self employed for the whole situation is laughable.

 

[SocketRocket]

I don't doubt that doing things "cash in hand" goes on, or rather I know it goes on, but to say that most tax avoidance is because of that is just blinkered. Most tax avoidance is done by people, accountancies and companies who know the rules, how to work them and where to put monies so that it isn't counted. To blame the one man band self employed for the whole situation is laughable.

Did I blame the self employed one man band for the whole situation? Read it again.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Did I blame the self employed one man band for the whole situation? Read it again.

By inference, yes you did. The majority of self employed are one man bands.

 

[londonlewis]

Not an issue just balance. I hear a lot about people that earn high salaries being critized for avoiding tax but I would hazard a guess that most tax avoidance is from self employed people, you see it everywhere, this price if you want an invoice, that price for cash in hand.

You must be kidding.

In 2014 Shell paid no corporation tax despite making £20bn profit
In 2014/15 Vodafone paid no corporation tax despite profit of almost £2bn
Starbucks used to use transfer pricing techniques to pay zero tax.

Corporation tax is 20% so Shell avoided £4bn in tax. Vodafone avoided £400m in tax.
Just those two companies alone must be just a little bit more than the occasional plumber taking cash in hand payments.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I still don't know the full meaning and the likely economic impact of leaving the Single Market and of leaving the Customs Union. And I am making an effort. How others who can't be bothered making an effort could ever understand such complex subjects is beyond me - but we are all expected to somehow know. This is made worse by the fact that some important people who claim to know the impact won't tell me. And I don't know why not. Is it a secret? Glad we won't have to try and understand such things as these ever again.

Also - I do wonder what proportion of the electorate properly understand, or are able to work out, the financial impact on any individual of the Labour Parties proposed 45% tax rate.

 

[SocketRocket]

By inference, yes you did. The majority of self employed are one man bands.

You read it again. I suggested that self employed are avoiding tax. Please show where I said no one else was?

 

[SocketRocket]

You must be kidding.

In 2014 Shell paid no corporation tax despite making £20bn profit
In 2014/15 Vodafone paid no corporation tax despite profit of almost £2bn
Starbucks used to use transfer pricing techniques to pay zero tax.

Corporation tax is 20% so Shell avoided £4bn in tax. Vodafone avoided £400m in tax.
Just those two companies alone must be just a little bit more than the occasional plumber taking cash in hand payments.

Am I kidding! Why not try to look at the overall picture of how much Shell actually pays in Tax and what their decommission costs are in the North Sea, It is quite legal and normal for an organisation to offset costs against profit. Please read the attached:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...k-treasury-government-north-sea-a7789701.html

 

[PhilTheFragger]

anybody else want me to rename this thread " Who's Not Paying Enough Tax" or something along those lines

can we get back on track or start another thread for tax dodgers

 

[Deleted member 16999]

anybody else want me to rename this thread " Who's Not Paying Enough Tax" or something along those lines

can we get back on track or start another thread for tax dodgers

You mean back on track to the thread that the poster admitted was done to wind people up
Looks like he did a good job!

 

[londonlewis]

Am I kidding! Why not try to look at the overall picture of how much Shell actually pays in Tax and what their decommission costs are in the North Sea, It is quite legal and normal for an organisation to offset costs against profit. Please read the attached:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...k-treasury-government-north-sea-a7789701.html

Just because it is legal, doesn't mean it is right or fair.
And arguing that Shell deserves to pay no corporation tax in the UK because of how much tax it pays elsewhere isn't exactly a solid argument. Or how much it is going to cost for it to decommission its North Sea oil rigs.

I find it absolutely inconceivable that someone would try to defend a global oil & gas business.

 

[Hobbit]

Just because it is legal, doesn't mean it is right or fair.
And arguing that Shell deserves to pay no corporation tax in the UK because of how much tax it pays elsewhere isn't exactly a solid argument. Or how much it is going to cost for it to decommission its North Sea oil rigs.

I find it absolutely inconceivable that someone would try to defend a global oil & gas business.

But it is a solid argument. Companies operating within the EU are supposed to pay their taxes in the country any particular arm is operating in. For example, Shell Netherlands may have made €10m profit, and Shell UK might have made €5m loss. Shell Netherlands has to pay tax but Shell UK doesn't.

Legally, you can't declare costs and profits in the countries they don't occur in in an effort to avoid taxes.

Shell, globally, might have made €500m profit but should only pay taxes in the countries those profits were made in.

The media makes a big thing about the headline profit but never explains the legality of where costs and profits must be declared.

 

[SocketRocket]

Just because it is legal, doesn't mean it is right or fair.
And arguing that Shell deserves to pay no corporation tax in the UK because of how much tax it pays elsewhere isn't exactly a solid argument. Or how much it is going to cost for it to decommission its North Sea oil rigs.

I find it absolutely inconceivable that someone would try to defend a global oil & gas business.

I find it inconceivable that you dont understand that Legal means something is right. If you bothered to check Shell paid $52 Billion tax in 2016. Who do you think should pay decommissioning costs and if it's shell should they pay tax on that cost. Just think about it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I find it inconceivable that you dont understand that Legal means something is right. If you bothered to check Shell paid $52 Billion tax in 2016. Who do you think should pay decommissioning costs and if it's shell should they pay tax on that cost. Just think about it.

Everyday's a school day, what exactly are they decommissioning? Why should or shouldn't shell pay tax on that cost?

 

[Foxholer]

Just because it is legal, doesn't mean it is right or fair.
And arguing that Shell deserves to pay no corporation tax in the UK because of how much tax it pays elsewhere isn't exactly a solid argument. Or how much it is going to cost for it to decommission its North Sea oil rigs.

I find it absolutely inconceivable that someone would try to defend a global oil & gas business.

Er....Rubbish!

Well, not all of it, but certainly most of it!

Taxation (or tax mitigation) is actually a 'market' that countries compete for! It's something where very large multi-national companies actually have more power than many governments - and some are quite prepared (even obliged!) to actively wield that power! Whether that's a good thing or not is irrelevant - it's simply a statement of the real world!

 

[SocketRocket]

Everyday's a school day, what exactly are they decommissioning? Why should or shouldn't shell pay tax on that cost?

They are decommissioning North Sea Oil and Gas Fields. No company pays tax on costs, the cost of running a business is not an asset but a liability. Tax is due not on Gross profit but Net profit after all costs have been deducted and decommissioning Oil/gas fields is certainly a major cost. What many people fail to consider is the massive amount of tax companies like this generate, all their employees pat tax on the wages they earn and the Company pays National Insurance for all these employees.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They are decommissioning North Sea Oil and Gas Fields. No company pays tax on costs, the cost of running a business is not an asset but a liability. Tax is due not on Gross profit but Net profit after all costs have been deducted and decommissioning Oil/gas fields is certainly a major cost. What many people fail to consider is the massive amount of tax companies like this generate, all their employees pat tax on the wages they earn and the Company pays National Insurance for all these employees.

Cheers :thup:

 

[Hobbit]

Everyday's a school day, what exactly are they decommissioning? Why should or shouldn't shell pay tax on that cost?

Get yourself to Hartlepool Paul and you'll see the North Sea's biggest platform being decommissioned. Brent field are slowly decommissioning their platforms now. A platform, typically, takes about 5 yrs to decomm.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Get yourself to Hartlepool Paul and you'll see the North Sea's biggest platform being decommissioned. Brent field are slowly decommissioning their platforms now. A platform, typically, takes about 5 yrs to decomm.

Saw them when playing at Seaton Carew, just didn't understand the in/outs of cost.

 

[londonlewis]

I find it inconceivable that you dont understand that Legal means something is right. If you bothered to check Shell paid $52 Billion tax in 2016. Who do you think should pay decommissioning costs and if it's shell should they pay tax on that cost. Just think about it.

You think that everything that is legal is right? Unbelievable Jeff. I seriously hope you are joking. But I seriously doubt you are.