Playing longer courses.

[USER1999]

I played The Grove Thursday, off the black tees, at 7152 yards. Par 72, standard scratch 74. I play off a ten handicap, at a course where its 6612 off the tips, par 72, SS 72.
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So for an extra 540 yards, in theory I would get 2 more shots. Wow. If I could opt to hit those two extra shots with my driver, I’d be lucky to get it out to 540 yards.
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Assuming that the extra yards are evenly divided over the 18 holes, then it’s on average, 30 yards longer per hole. Say 3 club lengths.
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I had a good day with my driver, an ok day with my irons, but my putter was stone cold. If I give myself a 12 handicap due to SS of 74, then I shot 31 points. Not great, as even with the increased length, all the greens were within range in regulation (albeit quite a few were hybrid / wood second shots).
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What score relative to your handicap would you be happy with, if playing a course significantly longer than your home course?
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[duncan mackie]

other way round for me

72/74 of the Blues. 72/73 off the Whites and 72/71 of Yellows - As a Senior I get to compete in Comps and Matches off all 3, and, agreeing your point, the Yellows make a huge difference as you play round - although the 2 shots on the card is realistic it always seems easier than that (bigger gap).

 

[Imurg]

Ours off the tips is 1000 yards shorter but SSS is 5 different to the Grove
So.........
If I'm meant to score 79 I'd probably be happy breaking 85 purely down to the extra length putting more pressure on the long game than is usual round my place..

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I played The Grove Thursday, off the black tees, at 7152 yards. Par 72, standard scratch 74. I play off a ten handicap, at a course where its 6612 off the tips, par 72, SS 72.
*
So for an extra 540 yards, in theory I would get 2 more shots. Wow. If I could opt to hit those two extra shots with my driver, I’d be lucky to get it out to 540 yards.
*
Assuming that the extra yards are evenly divided over the 18 holes, then it’s on average, 30 yards longer per hole. Say 3 club lengths.
*
I had a good day with my driver, an ok day with my irons, but my putter was stone cold. If I give myself a 12 handicap due to SS of 74, then I shot 31 points. Not great, as even with the increased length, all the greens were within range in regulation (albeit quite a few were hybrid / wood second shots).
*
What score relative to your handicap would you be happy with, if playing a course significantly longer than your home course?
*

I'd be happy with 31 points Murph. It's not all about the length though. It's about the way he courses are setup. If you increased my course by 800yds but kept the same kind of design, i'd expect to score better than somewhere like The Grove or Wentworth where you don't get away with not being accurate as much as you would at my place.

There's a bunker over the back of one of the greens at Wentworth which I don't think I would ever get out of it's so deep. Much like a lot of those we played at Carton House. To score well round those courses you have to have skills I'm not ashamed to admit I simply don't have.

 

[daymond]

I'm not worried by longer courses on the basis that on shorter ones I pitch in with sand/pitch/9 or 8 instead of 9/8/7/6 on the longer holes, particularly on par fours. But then I am off 17.

 

[duncan mackie]

I'm not worried by longer courses on the basis that on shorter ones I pitch in with sand/pitch/9 or 8 instead of 9/8/7/6 on the longer holes, particularly on par fours. But then I am off 17.

you must hit a massively long ball!

whilst the longest par 4 approach club at yesterdays Surrey Tour event was an 8 iron for me (jimbob max a wedge!) at my 7000yd course 2 weeks ago I had 5 approaches with hybrid or longer! Monday at Princes (off Yellows) I had 4 hybrid approaches - and these are off solid drives (and I'm not short...)

 

[USER1999]

This is my point, instead of hitting 8 iron approaches, suddenly it's hybrid, or 4 irons.

It's more than a two shot difference over 18 holes?

 

[JustOne]

What score relative to your handicap would you be happy with, if playing a course significantly longer than your home course?
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Hard to say... the par 5's would cover some of those yards and they were probably going to be 3 shotters anyway. Always want to beat my h/cap so I'm hardly EVER happy with the way I play. I would expect to score worse because of the length but better because of the greens - so hopefully those would even themselves out. Only the conditions make a course hard (soft landing drives or windy day)... sometimes you can shoot 5 over your h/cap and think you've played useless... it's only when the rest of the field come in and no one has shot under 80 is when you realise how you did. Without opposition it's hard to reflect on your score - how did your playing partners fair?

 

[garyinderry]

id say if you play to your handicap at a course around 6,500 yards you are playing pretty well :thup:


tought when the wind gets up.

 

[timchump]

I play of 14 and id be more than happy going round the Grove in 18 over

Personally i think it makes a big difference, i noticed it when i joined my new, club 6600 yards compared to my old club, under 6000 yards.
Hitting the tee shot for example at the shorter course par 4 you can take a club less, 3 wood go for accuracy then have a mid iron left, or go with a driver and be rewarded with a with a short iron for the approach..
The longer courses, you have to take the driver, you have to hit it long and straight, and then your still left with anything from hybrid to a mid iron it's relentless.

 

[duncan mackie]

This is my point, instead of hitting 8 iron approaches, suddenly it's hybrid, or 4 irons.

It's more than a two shot difference over 18 holes?

as I posted earlier in this thread, it certainly seems like it; and I've also posted that I feel the CONGU ratings tend to 'break down' above about 6700 and below about 5700 yds for most handicap golfers for the same reason.

 

[ScienceBoy]

At longer courses I just meet my lay up length more often. I have the same dispersion left and right with clubs over a 4 iron as a short club layup would give.

I therefore would just meet my layup distance more often and pitch on.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Like Duncan I feel that maybe SSS doesn't properly take into account the added difficulty over a certain yardage.

Although there are other things which determine SSS such as hazards in the notional scratch player's "target area" the CONGU guide states that "yardage is the predominant factor in allocating a SSS".

The guide indicates that SSS goes up for each additional 220 yards. But the yardage ranges for each SSS are also 220 yards. Might be clearer with some figures from the table.

6261 - 6480 SSS 70
6481 - 6700 SSS 71
6701 - 6920 SSS 72
6921 - 7140 SSS 73
7141 - 7360 SSS 74

So if your course is at the bottom end of one range and you play a course at the top end of the next range you might only get an extra shot for an extra 400 yards - e.g 6275 to 6675 only adds 1 shot to SSS, and 6275 to 6900 (600 yards difference) only adds 2.

At certain point rather than just turning holes from being a drive and a short/mid iron to a drive and mid/long iron, those extra yards start putting holes out of range.

This is quite noticeable at our place which is SSS 70 off the yellows at 5991 yards but only SSS 71 for the extra 338 yards it plays off the whites, which for me, depending on conditions, adds 2-3 clubs to some of the par 4s putting about 4 which I can reach off the yellows, virtually out of range off the whites. In truth for most people the difference is about 4 shots.

In addition your h/c at the shorter course may well be lower than if you played at the longer one.

I guess this where the much malinged CSS kicks in, as our CSS off the whites often goes up 1 or 2 if the course is soft or it's a bit breezy.

 

[User 105]

31 points sounds pretty good round the Grove off the back tee's.

Usually when the tee's are pushed back at the 'premium' courses it's not just the length that's a factor, it forces you to shape your shots off the tee more. Plus where there are doglegs, if you can't get your teeshot out there and in the right position your giving up a shot already.

When we play Woburn my m8 always insists playing it off the back tee's as he's a monster hitter. I'm not short but driver and hybrid\4i on most par 4's for me makes it tough to score well on.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I find longer courses a bit soul destroying if I'm honest. I played Wokefield Park off the blacks a few years back and every hole seemed to be driver off the tee (par 3's excepted). There was no finesse and power ruled. I'd prefer a shorter but more strategic course that makes club selection paramount.