Playing Handicap Allowances

[Swango1980]

That's correct but we will be returning only singles stroke play scores for handicapping and won't need to work out or know our Playing Handicaps. We are required to return only our gross score at each hole. Let the Playing Handicap lurk in the dark recesses of the computer computation of competition results. Know your course handicap, know at which holes you get your strokes and in a Stableford pick up accordingly - just as you do at the moment.

Actually, in Stableford DO NOT pick up just like you do at moment. Players tend to pick up as soon as they've bobbed that hole in a competition. However, as pointed out, that should not be done where the player still has a shot on that hole based on course handicap, not playing handicap.

And, no doubt players WILL pick up, at least in early days, when they can no longer score bases on Playing Handicap, just like thet do now when playing comps with reduced handicaps

 

[Colin L]

Actually, in Stableford DO NOT pick up just like you do at moment. Players tend to pick up as soon as they've bobbed that hole in a competition. However, as pointed out, that should not be done where the player still has a shot on that hole based on course handicap, not playing handicap.

And, no doubt players WILL pick up, at least in early days, when they can no longer score bases on Playing Handicap, just like thet do now when playing comps with reduced handicaps

What I said was,
[We] won't need to work out or know our Playing Handicaps. We are required to return only our gross score at each hole. Let the Playing Handicap lurk in the dark recesses of the computer computation of competition results. Know your course handicap, know at which holes you get your strokes and in a Stableford pick up accordingly - just as you do at the moment.

What I mean is that in a stroke competition you don't need to know what your playing handicap is and so just ignore it. I can't see that the handicap allowance will have a bearing on your golf in stroke play any more than it does now say in a mixed tee competition. I've had queries from players in mixed tee competitions who noticed from HowdidiDo after the event that their handicap was 2 strokes higher than they thought it should be. They played their entire round not knowing about the mixed tee handicap allowance but can anyone say that it made the slightest difference to how they played? As I see it, not knowing in the future that the competition results in a stroke competition will be calculated on the basis of 95% of your Course Handicap would similarly make not the slightest difference to how you play. I'd prefer players to know about it, because that would reduce the number of emails I have to answer but no need to know what it is. And if you don't know what it is, you will pick up in Stableford on the basis of your Course Handicap just as you do at the moment, just as I said.

Keep life as simple as you can and let computers do what they are employed for!

Or have I got this horribly wrong?

 

[Swango1980]

What I said was,
[We] won't need to work out or know our Playing Handicaps. We are required to return only our gross score at each hole. Let the Playing Handicap lurk in the dark recesses of the computer computation of competition results. Know your course handicap, know at which holes you get your strokes and in a Stableford pick up accordingly - just as you do at the moment.

What I mean is that in a stroke competition you don't need to know what your playing handicap is and so just ignore it. I can't see that the handicap allowance will have a bearing on your golf in stroke play any more than it does now say in a mixed tee competition. I've had queries from players in mixed tee competitions who noticed from HowdidiDo after the event that their handicap was 2 strokes higher than they thought it should be. They played their entire round not knowing about the mixed tee handicap allowance but can anyone say that it made the slightest difference to how they played? As I see it, not knowing in the future that the competition results in a stroke competition will be calculated on the basis of 95% of your Course Handicap would similarly make not the slightest difference to how you play. I'd prefer players to know about it, because that would reduce the number of emails I have to answer but no need to know what it is. And if you don't know what it is, you will pick up in Stableford on the basis of your Course Handicap just as you do at the moment, just as I said.

Keep life as simple as you can and let computers do what they are employed for!

Or have I got this horribly wrong?

I play off 8. If I play in an Open, and I miss my bogey putt on stroke index 7 or 8, I will just pick up as I can no longer score. Obviously, that would be the wrong thing to do if it was a qualifier and I played off 8.

It is not simple to ask players just to forget Playing Handicap, and play to their Course Handicap. Inevitably, they will find out their Playing Handicap by some means before teeing off. So, in Stableford, they need to be careful not to pick up top early.

Also, it is not simple to say "just put gross score down and computer will work it out". One of the biggest strengths of Stableford is a player can pick up when they can no longer score. Under WHS, that is not the case. Because, although they may no longer be able to score, it could still be important in terms of course handicap. So, players will need to be aware of this, which is why the guidelines make sure to stress it.

 

[Colin L]

We're saying the same thing about stablefords. I'm not suggesting that players who want to know their playing handicap shouldn't find it out their playing handicaps. All I am saying is that is isn't essential to know it in stroke play and that it is arguably better not to know it in a stableford so that you don't make the error of picking up too soon.

Put it another way, for what purpose do you need to know your Playing Handicap at all in singles stroke play. What adverse difference can it make to your game if you don't know it?

By the way, if your course handicap were 8, your playing handicap would be 8.

 

[Swango1980]

We're saying the same thing about stablefords. I'm not suggesting that players who want to know their playing handicap shouldn't find it out their playing handicaps. All I am saying is that is isn't essential to know it in stroke play and that it is arguably better not to know it in a stableford so that you don't make the error of picking up too soon.

Put it another way, for what purpose do you need to know your Playing Handicap at all in singles stroke play. What adverse difference can it make to your game if you don't know it?

By the way, if your course handicap were 8, your playing handicap would be 8.

I was responding to your response to jim8flog. Jim was specifically talking about Stableford, and therefore what he said was spot on.

In Stableford, players want to know what their playing handicap is, and therefore if they can score points or not. In my example, I didn't make clear, I was talking about currently when sometimes we play comps at opens that are 75% handicap. So, I'd be off 6, not 8. As soon as I can't score a point in the competition, I pick up. Got a be careful about that from November

 

[rulefan]

I was responding to your response to jim8flog. Jim was specifically talking about Stableford, and therefore what he said was spot on.

In Stableford, players want to know what their playing handicap is, and therefore if they can score points or not. In my example, I didn't make clear, I was talking about currently when sometimes we play comps at opens that are 75% handicap. So, I'd be off 6, not 8. As soon as I can't score a point in the competition, I pick up. Got a be careful about that from November

Be careful yes but it doesn't cost (except time) if you play another couple of strokes, unless you are a plus handicapper. (if I have my maths right )

 

[berniethebolt]

We must be grateful the the R&A have developed such a simple and easily understood system. As it is going to be operated by computer, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Colin L]

I was responding to your response to jim8flog. Jim was specifically talking about Stableford, and therefore what he said was spot on.

Which is why in the post immediately following Jim's I said, "That's correct".

I regret that I haven't been clear enough in what I've tried to explain.

 

[Swango1980]

Which is why in the post immediately following Jim's I said, "That's correct".

I regret that I haven't been clear enough in what I've tried to explain.

Followed by a "but".

 

[sawtooth]

What goes on the scorecard ? Course handicap or playing handicap or both?

And what hcap determines a DQ if missing or too high?

BTW it’s odd that England Golf havent published a scorecard template, at least I haven’t found one on their site.

I was however sent one from another club that seems to have all the important additions and some things removed such as SSS and CSS.

 

[jim8flog]

What goes on the scorecard ? Course handicap or playing handicap or both?

And what hcap determines a DQ if missing or too high?

BTW it’s odd that England Golf havent published a scorecard template, at least I haven’t found one on their site.

I was however sent one from another club that seems to have all the important additions and some things removed such as SSS and CSS.

On the scorecard Course Handicap is the must have and it must be correct.

Handicap missing or too high is DQ

The recommendation is to have 3 boxes for handicaps Index, Course and Playing. Course Rating should be on the card. SSS belongs to the old system so is no longer needed.

 

[sawtooth]

On the scorecard Course Handicap is the must have and it must be correct.

Handicap missing or too high is DQ

The recommendation is to have 3 boxes for handicaps Index, Course and Playing. Course Rating should be on the card. SSS belongs to the old system so is no longer needed.

Thanks , I agree course rating and slope rating should also feature.

I’ve seen also strokes received alongside HI, CH and PH. I think that’s probably a good idea, what do you think?

Where can I find the official recommendation?

So DQ will apply if CH is either missing or high? Not the PH.

 

[Swango1980]

Thanks , I agree course rating and slope rating should also feature.

I’ve seen also strokes received alongside HI, CH and PH. I think that’s probably a good idea, what do you think?

Where can I find the official recommendation?

So DQ will apply if CH is either missing or high? Not the PH.

Correct

 

[nickjdavis]

I wonder how many clubs are going to just bin their existing stock of "old style" cards on November 1st? My bet is that many clubs will continue to use them going forward over the winter period until their stocks have expired before releasing new style cards....possibly at the beginning of the "new season" in spring 2021.

I'm not saying its right.....but my money is on it happening.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks , I agree course rating and slope rating should also feature.

I’ve seen also strokes received alongside HI, CH and PH. I think that’s probably a good idea, what do you think?

Where can I find the official recommendation?

So DQ will apply if CH is either missing or high? Not the PH.

Strokes Received is redundant as it is the same as CH or PH.
The problem is that CH is used by the handicap system and PH is used only for the competition result.
Neither CONGU nor EG have made an official recommendation but EG have indicated to me that HI and CH should be shown. On the grounds (mentioned elsewhere) that if CH is not shown, a high handicapper might pick up to soon in a stableford.

Edit: Sorry I had forgotten. They have now - see post #148

 

[Swango1980]

I wonder how many clubs are going to just bin their existing stock of "old style" cards on November 1st? My bet is that many clubs will continue to use them going forward over the winter period until their stocks have expired before releasing new style cards....possibly at the beginning of the "new season" in spring 2021.

I'm not saying its right.....but my money is on it happening.

We have loads old cards left. It is likely that we'll still give these ones out to players playing social gtolf until they run out, and give the new cards out to those playing competitively

 

[sawtooth]

Strokes Received is redundant as it is the same as CH or PH.
The problem is that CH is used by the handicap system and PH is used only for the competition result.
Neither CONGU nor EG have made an official recommendation but EG have indicated to me that HI and CH should be shown. On the grounds (mentioned elsewhere) that if CH is not shown, a high handicapper might pick up to soon in a stableford.

Do you mean if PH is not shown a player may pick up too soon? PH should always be lower than CH right?

 

[Swango1980]

Do you mean if PH is not shown a player may pick up too soon? PH should always be lower than CH right?

No, rulefan means if CH is not shown, a player may pick up too early (in relation to relevance to their handicap, rather than competition result). PH will often be lower than CH (i.e. PH = 95% CH in singles stroke play), so if PH was only shown, player may pick up when they can no longer score a point, even though they would have still had a shot had it been 100% CH

 

[sawtooth]

No, rulefan means if CH is not shown, a player may pick up too early (in relation to relevance to their handicap, rather than competition result). PH will often be lower than CH (i.e. PH = 95% CH in singles stroke play), so if PH was only shown, player may pick up when they can no longer score a point, even though they would have still had a shot had it been 100% CH

Ok I was reading it from a competition POV, say a player has CH 16 and that’s all that is printed on the card, that player will not pick up early if playing to CH 16 ( because their PH will be lower, ie 15)

Infact they will be picking up late by a hole.

You are both coming from a hcp adjustment POV correct?

So there is an argument to have both CH and PH on card for the above reasons?

Sorry just want to be really clear about this. Thanks.

 

[Swango1980]

Ok I was reading it from a competition POV, say a player has CH 16 and that’s all that is printed on the card, that player will not pick up early if playing to CH 16 ( because their PH will be lower, ie 15)

Infact they will be picking up late by a hole.

You are both coming from a hcp adjustment POV correct?

So there is an argument to have both CH and PH on card for the above reasons?

Sorry just want to be really clear about this. Thanks.

That is correct. England Golf recommend Index, Course AND Playing are shown on card, but Course Handicap looks to be the one relevant to the Rules of Golf.

However, even with CH shown, that doesn't mean some players will not pick up early when they can no longer score a point in the competition. Ultimately they'll know their Playing handicap anyway, so many will naturally pick up early when they shouldn't, so it'll still have to be drummed into them. Arguable, for a player who is all about winning competitions, and is quite happy to have as high a handicap as possible, there is little incentive for them to hole out when they miss their putt for a point, yet still need the next in terms of CH. Granted, this will not happen every round and ultimately unlikely to make any real difference overall, given that this scenario would need to happen on the 1 or 2 holes in which they get shots under CH but not PH.