Playing Handicap Allowances

[rulefan]

Thanks, was just wondering (they're the same as when I was doing ratings years ago, presumably second shot distances (200 and 170) are also the same)? So all ratings are done using those assigned distances?

200 & 150 (170 is the scratch womens' 2nd)
The USGA did a major review a year or so ago. The increase for a scratch drive was about 4 yards so they didn't bother changing all the manuals and rerating.
I assume you were rating under the USGA system rather than EGU.

 

[rulie]

Thanks. Yes, USGA system.

 

[woofers]

Your calculations are wrong
Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating ÷ 113)
Player A is 20 Course Playing =19
Player B is 9 Course Playing= 9

So there is still a 10 shot difference between them.

I don’t think so:
Course Handicap = 16.3 (HI) x (125 / 113 ) = 18. Playing handicap = 18 x .95 = 17
Course Handicap = 7.2 (HI) x (125 / 113 ) = 8. Playing handicap = 8 x .95 = 8

I think you have used 18 and 8 as the handicap indices, where these are average of the best gross differentials. These should be de-sloped to get the handicap index, 18 /125 x 113 = 16.3

 

[berniethebolt]

And all this so I can go and play competitively in Outer Mongolia! quos deus vult perdere prius dementat

 

[jim8flog]

I don’t think so:
Course Handicap = 16.3 (HI) x (125 / 113 ) = 18. Playing handicap = 18 x .95 = 17
Course Handicap = 7.2 (HI) x (125 / 113 ) = 8. Playing handicap = 8 x .95 = 8

I think you have used 18 and 8 as the handicap indices, where these are average of the best gross differentials. These should be de-sloped to get the handicap index, 18 /125 x 113 = 16.3

This is what you put in post #54.

Player A‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 18. His HI is 18 / 125 x 113 = 16.3
Player B‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 8. His HI is 8 / 125 x 113 = 7.2

Note you have divided the HI by the other numbers instead of multiplying in that post

You are quoting a different HI in this post.

 

[rulefan]

And all this so I can go and play competitively in Outer Mongolia! quos deus vult perdere prius dementat

That is a good example of why a common system/language is useful. I don't think many people speak Latin there or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Colin L]

That is a good example of why a common system/language is useful. I don't think many people speak Latin there or anywhere else for that matter.

Yes, and Eseperanto went well, didn't it.

 

[woofers]

This is what you put in post #54.

Player A‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 18. His HI is 18 / 125 x 113 = 16.3
Player B‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 8. His HI is 8 / 125 x 113 = 7.2

Note you have divided the HI by the other numbers instead of multiplying in that post

You are quoting a different HI in this post.

Again, I can’t agree with you.
I have highlighted the section from post #54 for you.

 

[jim8flog]

Again, I can’t agree with you.
I have highlighted the section from post #54 for you.

From the Rules of Handicapping Manual

Section 6

6.1 Course Handicap Calculation
6.1a For an 18-hole Round
An 18-hole Course Handicap is calculated as follows:
Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating ÷ 113)

 

[rulie]

I think that you two should agree on what you're talking about - handicap index (HI) or course handicap. They are not the same.
HI = (gross score - course rating) X 113/slope
Course handicap = HI x slope/113

 

[woofers]

From the Rules of Handicapping Manual

Section 6

6.1 Course Handicap Calculation
6.1a For an 18-hole Round
An 18-hole Course Handicap is calculated as follows:
Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating ÷ 113)

I know that and I believe I have that correct, I think we are having difficulty agreeing the handicap index (HI)
What do you think the Handicap Index of someone will be whose adjusted gross scores are all 90, on a course with a course rating of 72 and a slope rating of 125?

 

[woofers]

I think that you two should agree on what you're talking about - handicap index (HI) or course handicap. They are not the same.
HI = (gross score - course rating) X 113/slope
Course handicap = HI x slope/113

We may have lost track that the topic is ‘Playing Handicap’....

 

[jim8flog]

We may have lost track that the topic is ‘Playing Handicap’....

I agree the topic is Playing Handicap but to get to the correct Playing Handicap you must first get to the correct Course Handicap

To go back to your #54 post

You have a calculation
Player A‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 18. His HI is 18 / 125 x 113 = 16.3

it is this that is incorrect.

A player with a Handicap Index of 18 on a course with a slope rating of 125 has Course Handicap of 20 not 16.3

i.e 18 x (125/113) = 20

Their Playing Handicap of 20 with a 95% allowance is 19.

 

[Swango1980]

I agree the topic is Playing Handicap but to get to the correct Playing Handicap you must first get to the correct Course Handicap

To go back to your #54 post

You have a calculation
Player A‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 18. His HI is 18 / 125 x 113 = 16.3

it is this that is incorrect.

A player with a Handicap Index of 18 on a course with a slope rating of 125 has Course Handicap of 20 not 16.3

i.e 18 x (125/113) = 20

Their Playing Handicap of 20 with a 95% allowance is 19.

Why is his Handicap Index 18? Is one of you including the 113/slope calculation within the definition of gross differential, the other not?

 

[Colin L]

I agree the topic is Playing Handicap but to get to the correct Playing Handicap you must first get to the correct Course Handicap

To go back to your #54 post

You have a calculation
Player A‘s 8 best gross differentials all happen to be 18. His HI is 18 / 125 x 113 = 16.3

it is this that is incorrect.

Sorry Jim, but Woofers has got it right. Your gross differential is the difference between your gross score and the Course Rating of the course you played whatever its slope rating may be. Your Handicap Index is based on the equivalent differential on a standard course with a slope rating of 113. The gross differential on the course you played has to be adjusted to that slope rating - "de-sloped" as Woofers said - by applying the ratio of the course slope rating to the the standard slope rating of 113. The adjusted differential is called the Score Differential and your Handicap Index is the average of the best 8 of your last 20 Score Differentials.

Woofers has calculated the score differential for a gross differential of 18 on a course with a slope rating of 125 as 18 x 113 ÷ 125 = 16.3 which is correct. As he posited a player with his 8 best gross differentials being 18 (such consistency!) , that means his Handicap Index is 16.3.

Edit. One cautionary note. Your 8 best gross differentials if scored on different courses might not necessarily be your best 8 score differentials.

 

[chrisd]

Sorry Jim, but Woofers has got it right. Your gross differential is the difference between your gross score and the Course Rating of the course you played whatever its slope rating may be. Your Handicap Index is based on the equivalent differential on a standard course with a slope rating of 113. The gross differential on the course you played has to be adjusted to that slope rating - "de-sloped" as Woofers said - by applying the ratio of the course slope rating with the the standard slope rating of 113. The adjusted differential is called the Score Differential and your Handicap Index is the average of the best 8 of your last 20 Score Differentials.

Woofers has calculated the score differential for a gross differential of 18 on a course with a slope rating of 125 as 18 x 113 ÷ 125 = 16.3 which is correct.

Couldn't be more simple ???????

 

[Colin L]

Couldn't be more simple ???????

Seriously, though, the workings don't have to be simple, can't really be that simple. But the player can return his acceptable score by midnight, leave the computer to do the work it is hired to do, find out the next day if his handicap index has changed and get on with his next game. No-one needs to understand the technicalities of the WHS any more than they need to know the technicalities of the CONGU UHS in order to make it work. You can drive a car without understanding what goes on under the bonnet and you can use and manage your handicap without knowing what goes on under its bonnet.

 

[chrisd]

Seriously, though, the workings don't have to be simple, can't really be that simple. But the player can return his acceptable score by midnight, leave the computer to do the work it is hired to do, find out the next day if his handicap index has changed and get on with his next game. No-one needs to understand the technicalities of the WHS any more than they need to know the technicalities of the CONGU UHS in order to make it work. You can drive a car without understanding what goes on under the bonnet and you can use and manage your handicap without knowing what goes on under its bonnet.

Or do whatever the wife tells you without having a clue why she asked

 

[rulefan]

Or do whatever the wife tells you without having a clue why she asked

Asked ?
You have it easy.

 

[chrisd]

Asked ?
You have it easy.

I wrote that as I couldn't spell "instructed"