Pitching distances

[Tiger]

Need some help here as I'm really confused. Went over to the heath on my lunch break. Using the Pelz method of Wedge play with the 07.30, 9.00 and 10.30 swings. At the moment just been focussed on getting a consistent 9.00 swing.

Was getting a very consistent ball strike and distance using my 52 degree Gap Wedge. As you know I've no got a range finder yet so paced out the distance. 103 paces. So I measured my average paces 32 inches. Works out at 91.5 yards. But my full swing goes just over 100 yards (approx 105).

I got home and checked my arm position on a few practice swings in the mirror and its perfectly horizontal. Just wondered whether hitting the ball that far on what is effectively a half swing is normal. Is it possible that I am dialing up the distance with a faster through swing on my shorter backswings? Or am I over swinging when I hit the ball but not when I practice in front of the mirror? Very confused so any thoughts appreciated.

Also expecting a few heads despondently shaken as people tell me to not get overly technical

 

[pokerjoke]

Need some help here as I'm really confused. Went over to the heath on my lunch break. Using the Pelz method of Wedge play with the 07.30, 9.00 and 10.30 swings. At the moment just been focussed on getting a consistent 9.00 swing.

Was getting a very consistent ball strike and distance using my 52 degree Gap Wedge. As you know I've no got a range finder yet so paced out the distance. 103 paces. So I measured my average paces 32 inches. Works out at 91.5 yards. But my full swing goes just over 100 yards (approx 105).

I got home and checked my arm position on a few practice swings in the mirror and its perfectly horizontal. Just wondered whether hitting the ball that far on what is effectively a half swing is normal. Is it possible that I am dialing up the distance with a faster through swing on my shorter backswings? Or am I over swinging when I hit the ball but not when I practice in front of the mirror? Very confused so any thoughts appreciated.

Also expecting a few heads despondently shaken as people tell me to not get overly technical




Exactly what i was thinking as i read your post,completely over complicating things.your wedge play as you get better will all be about feel and experience.Maybe just having three distances using your wedge,full,three quarter,half swing shots.keep it simple.

 

[USER1999]

It is not that odd. I can hit a 6i about 165 with a half swing, and exactly the same with a full swing. The half swing gives good acceleration into the ball, and also good ball contact, I just can't bring myself to play like it.

I am not a fan of this clock face tosh. Unless you are very regimental with your swing tempo, and your wrist action, you will get a different result every time. I prefer to judge by feel, rather than by formula.

 

[haplesshacker]

Hi Tiger.

Inside 110 yards, I really don't think about the shot / swing at all whilst over the ball. As I walk upto the ball I just imagine the shot I want to play, how it's going to fly, and more importantly imagine it as an under arm throw. So I keep nice soft hands, a languid swing, an open stance and just go at it easy like! No thoughts whilst over the ball, because if I do, I really go stiff and cock it up!

What happens next is anyone's guess!

But when it works, it works really well for me. The 60 was working great for me last Saturday. I guess that for me it's a 'feel' thing as opposed to a 'technical' thing. But then again. I can't play golf!

 

[Tiger]

In terms of Pelz I suppose I am not religious to it in that I see it as full, half and quarter swings (rather than clockface). What wass puzzling me was almost hitting the same distance on a half swing as a full swing but from Murph's comment I can see that it's not unusual.

Happy and reassured now.

On the feel front - I fully respect where you guys are coming from. When I used to play football I didn't used to think about how far I need to pull my foot back to play a diagonal ball in the corner for the winger to run on to. I just did it 'through feel'.

All I'm trying to do by being slightly scientific about it is speed up that feel learning process. If I have a repeatable half swing and quarter swing and I know how far the ball goes when I strike the ball with them it gives me a useful foundation on which to build.

Hoping at least a few you of you have stopped the despondent head shaking...

 

[bobmac]

Tiger, if you are swinging back to 9 o'clock and hitting your 52 that far, I can only imagine that you've not been told to stop the follow through at 3 o'clock.
It should go roughly half that distance.
The length of the follow through should mirror the length of the backswing
HTH

 

[pokerjoke]

I see TIGER by the clubs you use that you have three wedges why not consider a fourth maybe a 60 degree this will save you knocking down your wedge.

 

[Tiger]

Bob you are a genius! Yes I was following through beyond 3 o'clock - what an idiot!!!

Actually, I've just thought that rather than taking full swings with my GW I'll use half swing and full follow through as I was thinning it much less.

Over the heath on Wednesday so I'll dial down the follow through and hopefully see the distance drop on the intended shorter pitches.

 

[Tiger]

Hey PJ - I'm considering getting a lob and maybe dropping the 3 iron for a hybrid but for the time being I'm <u>trying</u> to keep it simple (as you've often told me )

Plan is to master my current irons and wedges this year and then review my bag in the summer

 

[pokerjoke]

Fair enough,keep up the good work

 

[bigbiffa]

yep short pitches need short follow throughs!

 

[RGDave]

I am not a fan of this clock face tosh.

I agree. 100%

For the first few years of playing I could either swing it full or less than full and mess it up. Eventually I learned to "take a bit off".
Once I had the feel for a 1/2 swing (9 o'clock more-or-less) that was enough for me.

Three swings, 3 wedges, 9 distances.

Shan't think I shall need any more than 9 until I play off less than 4 or 5. (Never, then)

- - - - -

Only outstanding players are going to benefit from all this nonsense, and you probably need to learn it once you are already well on your way to a low h'cap. I think it's a chicken and egg thing.

 

[Tiger]

I am not a fan of this clock face tosh.

I agree. 100%

For the first few years of playing I could either swing it full or less than full and mess it up. Eventually I learned to "take a bit off".
Once I had the feel for a 1/2 swing (9 o'clock more-or-less) that was enough for me.

Three swings, 3 wedges, 9 distances.

Shan't think I shall need any more than 9 until I play off less than 4 or 5. (Never, then)

- - - - -

Only outstanding players are going to benefit from all this nonsense, and you probably need to learn it once you are already well on your way to a low h'cap. I think it's a chicken and egg thing.

LOL! Dave if I learn a repeatable half swing and a quarter swing is that a suitable compromise?

 

[bobmac]

Three swings, 3 wedges, 9 distances.

I agree.
The guys on tour often have 4 lengths of swings, middle and bottom of the grip and 4 wedges so that's 32 yardages.
That's ok if you have time to practice and a caddy to tell you its 63, 45, 82 or whatever.
If you can learn 25, 50 and 75, thats a great start and can be adjusted for the inbetween numbers.
By the way, golfers were using the clockface long before Pelz wrote about it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I did try the clockface a la Pelz a couple of seasons ago and to be honest it felt a bit like golf by numbers and took away a bit of feel for a shot. I was more concerned with whether I needed a 52 degree and a 7.30 swing or a 58 degree and a 9.00 swing. Since abandoning the clock face I've learnt how far I hit a half shot (with full follow through) and the same shot with a mirror image (truncated) swing for my PW, 52 and 58. I can add ten yards or so per club by extending the swing to shoulder height and take 5 yards off by gripping further down. Much more reliable for my game and easy to use once I have the distance from my SC

I'm not saying Tiger is wrong using the Pelz method (apart from maybe the elongated follow through) but can't help wondering if once he gets onto a full eighteen hole course there will be way too much thinking going on over the shorter shots in particular which may hamper the natural flow.

 

[Tiger]

Let me explain my rationale. My aim when I play full 18 is to leave about 120 yards to the pin. That's because my PW is my most consistent club and goes a little further than that. That way I won't miss greens short or hit the trouble that lies short of the green.

Where I miss the green my chipping will come into play. But the problem is with fat and thin shots. If I get my distance judgement, wrong take too much club or catch it thin I could end up too close on my approach. Or if I hit my approach shot fat I'll be too far away.

My experience so far is that I overhit the resulting pitch shot. At the moment my plan is to develop a repeatable 1/4 and 1/2 swing and know the distances for my three wedges. I'll then have an additional six 'clubs' in my bag. The SW only comes out if I'm in the rough as I can't hit it from tight lies.

My problem with feel is that it's developed over time. At my stage it's trial and error. Rather than spending many frustrated hours on the course I'm just trying to learn a few reference points to help me recover from poor shots. Over time this starting point will evolve into feel. At least that's the theory.

I hope this helps clarify my thinking.

 

[Swinger]

I never thought you would have much chance (although wished you the best of luck) with your challenge but I'm very impressed with the way your thinking and the effort your putting in. If you keep it up you'll have a year maybe more spare!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Tiger,

I totally understand where you're coming from and actually the idea of leaving a favourite yardage is what the top players do all the time when they can't reach a green in regulation. My point is that I think certainly initially that if you have too many thoughts about which club and which swing to use it will over complicate things. My suggestion (and its only that) would be to invest in a pitching/chipping lesson and learn the fundamentals of both shots and ingrain those first. That way you'll open up more variety into the short game. I'm probably being a little harsh as a) my short game is through the floor right now, b) I've been playing the game for ages and c) I learnt through experience to play different types of shot depending on the lie, pin placement etc.

I think you are definitely on the right path but it might just be a case of stepping back a touch with all this short game work to see a slightly bigger picture. Either way I look forward ot reading about it on the blog

 

[Tiger]

I never thought you would have much chance (although wished you the best of luck) with your challenge but I'm very impressed with the way your thinking and the effort your putting in. If you keep it up you'll have a year maybe more spare!

Thanks Swinger. Really appreciate your honesty and vote of confidence. I hope you're right!

My point is that I think certainly initially that if you have too many thoughts about which club and which swing to use it will over complicate things. My suggestion (and its only that) would be to invest in a pitching/chipping lesson and learn the fundamentals of both shots and ingrain those first.

Hi Homer know exactly what you mean. Pitching is solid at the moment but distance judgement is poor, hence the focus on partial swings and distances. As for chipping I've bitten the bullet. Taking a break from swing mechanics in a fortnight and scheduled to cover chipping in my next lesson.

 

[Region3]

I don't see it as getting too technical at all. Seems sensible to me to learn 3 swings rather than try to 'feel' the distance and mess up.

I have a bit of paper in my bag (because my head's too full of garbage to remember any more numbers!) with a 4x4 grid on. 4 swings (3 actually but I won't bore you any more) with 4 clubs.

If I need to take a little bit off I can 'fat' it 20yds short, or simply 'thin' it 20yds through if I need a little extra!!