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Official WHS Survey

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Dunesman said:
So if all club comps were passed to a 'sub-group' to run, and not the 'club', would everyone be happy with members running competition according to their wishes ? Whether compliant with EG recommendations or requirements or not.
Handicap Indexes of course still run by the EG book, so 100% valid on that. But playing allowances etc, no need to feel obliged and can be tailored to the players needs.
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That isn't going to fool anyone.
And there's no chance anyone is going to volunteer to do the mountain of extra work it would create.
 
Eesat 90210 said:
That doesn't make it unfair though if it's voluntary entry.
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Backache said:
Golf is meant to be a sport, skill is part of it.
Lotteries are available for those who wish to gamble.
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No i agree....I was just answering the question as to how some people might find the concept of a 2's sweep unfair....especially where 2's sweeps which whilst on the face of it are "voluntary", are in fact an ingrained culture of the club and everyone automatically pays the £1 entry.
 
nickjdavis said:
No i agree....I was just answering the question as to how some people might find the concept of a 2's sweep unfair....especially where 2's sweeps which whilst on the face of it are "voluntary", are in fact an ingrained culture of the club and everyone automatically pays the £1 entry.
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I stopped paying into 2's a few years ago. It's funny how it still jars with people when I'm putting for a 2 and I tell them I have not entered. It's Pavlov's dog for a lot of people, they feel obliged to enter.

Incidentally, I stopped entering as the courses I was playing largely had long par 3's and so the chances of getting a 2 was significantly reduced. I will enter on away courses where I know the par 3's are more within reach.
 
Voyager EMH said:
After all the consequent discussion, I am inclined to think that a club doing this (90% allowance for individual strokeplay comp) in an open an honest way to members, is in no breach of anything that would incur a sanction from county level.
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I am inclined to think that you are wrong and the County, if made aware, would initially discuss this with the club and advise them to use the mandatory handicap allowances for club run competitions. Eventually if the breach continued and the County were unable to change the club’s behaviour, they would advise England Golf and if, after further ‘education’, the policy remained in place there would be sanctions, although I would be extremely surprised if it ever got that far.
 
nickjdavis said:
especially where 2's sweeps which whilst on the face of it are "voluntary", are in fact an ingrained culture of the club and everyone automatically pays the £1 entry.
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That's not the reality that I've seen, the comp entry fee is done online and the 2's are something you have to proactively do separately in the pro shop.
 
Eesat 90210 said:
That's not the reality that I've seen, the comp entry fee is done online and the 2's are something you have to proactively do separately in the pro shop.
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I'll break it to you gently....your's is not the only reality. ;)

I dont doubt that what you describe is probably the most common way a 2's sweep operates....but its not the only way.
 
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rulefan said:
At my club only about 2/3rds enter.
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That may well be, but the point I was making was that there are clubs out there where the 2's entry fee, whilst being notionally "optional", over time have become bundled in to the main comp entry fee, and everyone pays it...effectively it is no longer optional but by default has become "mandatory".
 
wjemather said:
That isn't going to fool anyone.
And there's no chance anyone is going to volunteer to do the mountain of extra work it would create.
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The work is the same. The same people will be doing it. Just previously they were 'club', now they are just members doing their own thing, so anything goes.
 
Swango1980 said:
Again, the philosophy of "anything goes" doesn't really appear to meet the requirements of affiliation?
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That only applies to club run competitions. Handicap Indexes etc run by the club proper. Nobody has an issue with roll ups and casual swindles, so really its just hiving off any competitions that clubs feel need an adaptation from the standard, to that more flexible bespoke category.
 
Dunesman said:
That only applies to club run competitions. Handicap Indexes etc run by the club proper. Nobody has an issue with roll ups and casual swindles, so really its just hiving off any competitions that clubs feel need an adaptation from the standard, to that more flexible bespoke category.
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In your hypothetical situation, you said the Club was passing ALL responsibility of competitions to members, thus no longer in control of the Club.

If the Club still runs competitions, under the Rules of Handicapping, and members also run their own swindles using their own imagination with handicapping, then that isn't much different to most Clubs now.
 
Dunesman said:
The work is the same. The same people will be doing it. Just previously they were 'club', now they are just members doing their own thing, so anything goes.
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If the work is, as you say the same, then those members will have access to the club resources that enables them to run competitions. In which case they are acting on behalf of the club. Calling them "just members" does not make them so.
 
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