IanMac
Well-known member
I should have written that, I like an analogy!
Official WHS Survey
- Thread starter Banchory Buddha
- Start date
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Is your home Club Banchory Golf Club?
If so you need to get a bit more upto date!
Your Junior Team won the local league for the first time in 53 years last year, results from Club Junior comps are also on Fbook.
Oh yes one other thing, here’s the results from your Junior Club Champs, scratch & handicap, held on 01 July 24.
I have long said much the same, the R&A have been far too appeasing in their treatment of WHS, for a body based, born, and in the home of golf to have allowed the Americans to dictate to them (cos that is clearly what's happened) is bordering on negligent.
You were not allowed to post general play scores as a Cat 1 golfer under UHS, YOU are missing the point
No, that is not my home club.
Banchory does have over 100 juniors though, yet only 8 played the club championship?
Danny & Ross btw have both played for the senior handicap league team
PaulMdj
Well-known member
What is your home Club?
PaulMdj
Well-known member
I’m pretty sure a Cat 1 could submit a supplemmentary card under UHS.
But thankfully you’ve clarified UHS was cheat free.
Only if they had been unable to enter three cards required to keep their handicap active during the season
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Well this weird, Fergus is a member, past club champion, and former captain at Banchory Golf Club, according to Golf Monthly, the same you claim above.That's hysterical. Fergus is a member, past club champion, and former captain at my club
He hasn't caused the issue, he's reporting on it
So which is it? This post above is not true or the one about no Junior Comps for 2 years?
IanMac
Well-known member
Why not just accept what he says? If you come on here and make stuff up you don't last too long. People start ignoring you.Oh, Dunecht House, maybe when posting about YOUR Club you could clarify which one, would make it easier to follow.
No mention of AWAY anywhere.
D-S
Well-known member
I am fairly certain that shortly before WHS was introduced Cat 1 golfers were able to enter supplementary scores, there was no requirement, in England at least, for them to just be for keeping a handicap active.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Steady on, I can only go on what he posted! Look at post #1732, were does he say AWAY Club? He doesn’t, he says MY Club.
How on earth am I meant to know he belongs to 2 Clubs?
Why hide which Club he plays at? he posted on here back in 2021 he was a member of Dunecht House, which I found after a quick search, so why is he so defensive if he’s already posted that.
IanMac
Well-known member
I think we're all honest enough. I had no idea where Buddha played but he seemed genuine enough, as do you.
The junior issue is bigger than WHS. Too many kids getting their competitive kicks in front of a screen nowadays.
Dunesman
Active member
Gentlemen, with respect, that all looks to have gone a little childish.
The WHS fiasco can probably be viewed as having two main issues that are nevertheless distinct :
1) The general play card. i.e. the cheats charter factor. I have heard of a couple of issues on that, but both in my club and a neighbouring club, were jumped on quickly by the respective committees. I think it is an element, simply by being so against the culture were were used to of effectively carefully scrutinised competition cards, that is more feared than causing a real problem.
2) The fact that it is now clear, having given it a few years before rushing to judgement, that our flavour of WHS implementation just does not suit handicapped competition with large fields as well as what we had before. This is ticking off the low men. Add in a few tales of abusers as in point 1, a score of 51 points, and people completely lose faith.
There have been other elements that have harmed the change, which are in essence lesser factors, but have addex to the fog of mistrust and annoyance : that it has needed tweaks very quickly has undermined the story it was sold on; that in fact there isnt a world HS, but regional variations of (that WHS allows for regional variations in its rules, and therefore variations arent actually variations but still WHS is 1984 speak as someone mentioned earlier); the no CR-Par then CR-Par reversal was simply stupid ; expected score, most likely score, matchplay scores for handicap etc - all these deviations from strict shots taken have damaged credibility.
Adding to the lack of patience is the feeling that average golfers did not ask for WHS but that it was imposed on them. Average golfers were not agitating for non club members to have a handicap route, nor for portability of handicaps. As for the 3rd stated reason for WHS, that golfers can comoete fairly against each other, well, this is the one that has blown up in EG's face - we already had that ! and now we dont !
The game is not lost. But EG need to move quickly, have their mathematics and model correct, and make the needed adjustments.
The WHS fiasco can probably be viewed as having two main issues that are nevertheless distinct :
1) The general play card. i.e. the cheats charter factor. I have heard of a couple of issues on that, but both in my club and a neighbouring club, were jumped on quickly by the respective committees. I think it is an element, simply by being so against the culture were were used to of effectively carefully scrutinised competition cards, that is more feared than causing a real problem.
2) The fact that it is now clear, having given it a few years before rushing to judgement, that our flavour of WHS implementation just does not suit handicapped competition with large fields as well as what we had before. This is ticking off the low men. Add in a few tales of abusers as in point 1, a score of 51 points, and people completely lose faith.
There have been other elements that have harmed the change, which are in essence lesser factors, but have addex to the fog of mistrust and annoyance : that it has needed tweaks very quickly has undermined the story it was sold on; that in fact there isnt a world HS, but regional variations of (that WHS allows for regional variations in its rules, and therefore variations arent actually variations but still WHS is 1984 speak as someone mentioned earlier); the no CR-Par then CR-Par reversal was simply stupid ; expected score, most likely score, matchplay scores for handicap etc - all these deviations from strict shots taken have damaged credibility.
Adding to the lack of patience is the feeling that average golfers did not ask for WHS but that it was imposed on them. Average golfers were not agitating for non club members to have a handicap route, nor for portability of handicaps. As for the 3rd stated reason for WHS, that golfers can comoete fairly against each other, well, this is the one that has blown up in EG's face - we already had that ! and now we dont !
The game is not lost. But EG need to move quickly, have their mathematics and model correct, and make the needed adjustments.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Seen it for myself scratch handicappers that can’t break 80 then pull out of the second round of a scratch comp.
One shot 92. Even on a very bad day a scratch handicapper dosnt shoot 92.
He was worried his car might get stolen
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
Indeed it is not. In fact golf participation continues to grow. And as it continues to modernise its attitudes it will continue to do so.
The prestigious clubs will no doubt continue to flourish for longer, but the average club will not with some of the attitudes on display here.
As I said earlier. People are annoyed or frightened that their version of golf is being taken away from them. They are angry and lashing out at WHS. This has been pretty much confirmed with recent posts. Thankfully they are quickly becoming golf’s past.
Someone wondering why there are no juniors entering their club comps may do well to take a long hard look at themselves.
As we love a bit of Jackanory. I played with a couple of our plus handicaps on Monday afternoon. Neither of them mentioned the WHS or how higher handicappers have ruined their chances of winning the midweek stableford
Also, what is a cat 1 player these days?
Thread locked for now.
Thread tidied up and unlocked.
Could everyone please be a bit more respectful to each other and of each others opinions.
Just because we have a difference of opinion it shouldn't need to resort to personal insults.
Could everyone please be a bit more respectful to each other and of each others opinions.
Just because we have a difference of opinion it shouldn't need to resort to personal insults.
IanMac
Well-known member
There's a possibility that WHS is a faux pas. There were many people who said there was nothing wrong with the Post Office system.Indeed it is not. In fact golf participation continues to grow. And as it continues to modernise its attitudes it will continue to do so.
The prestigious clubs will no doubt continue to flourish for longer, but the average club will not with some of the attitudes on display here.
As I said earlier. People are annoyed or frightened that their version of golf is being taken away from them. They are angry and lashing out at WHS. This has been pretty much confirmed with recent posts. Thankfully they are quickly becoming golf’s past.
Someone wondering why there are no juniors entering their club comps may do well to take a long hard look at themselves.
As we love a bit of Jackanory. I played with a couple of our plus handicaps on Monday afternoon. Neither of them mentioned the WHS or how higher handicappers have ruined their chances of winning the midweek stableford
Also, what is a cat 1 player these days?
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Wow Ian, are you sure about this analogy! People’s lives were ruined by the Post Office scandal which will end up costing billions. I don’t think anyone will be jailed or commit suicide because of WHS.
