Official WHS Survey

[Backache]

A non sequitur surely.
You work on your trade or profession. You play games for enjoyment.

If your enjoyment is all about being the best, by all means practice in order to improve. But most players don't want or expect to be the best. They want to simply enjoy playing.
There can only be one best in a competition most of the others are there to enjoy the experience.

Very few expect to be the best but I would think the vast majority who I have met would like to improve and some to try and be their own best.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Few very low handicappers ever entered significant numbers of regular club comps. The only significant advantage higher handicappers have is in numbers - there are simply lots more of them.

And again with the pretence that only low(-ish) handicappers work on their game. Many don't, at all; and many higher handicappers work a lot harder than you.

Quite a lot of judgments there

All the low handicaps at our club play in the majority of comps

And I know a good number of them work on their game

 

[rulefan]

Before WHS the comittiee could put a stop to abuse before it got to serious.!

A competent committee can do it now.

 

[clubchamp98]

In most parts of the country, there are scratch events and matches most weeks.

Their full of 7 handicappers now off +3 thanks to WHS and the magic app.

 

[rulefan]

The game is meant to test us.

The game is meant to be enjoyed. It is a game not an exam.

Do you prefer winning or playing?

 

[clubchamp98]

A competent committee can do it now.

Ahh competent.

Put a system in that relies on something that dosnt exist in some clubs.

 

[clubchamp98]

The game is meant to be enjoyed. It is a game not an exam.

Do you prefer winning or playing?

Playing with a chance of winning.
That’s why it’s called competition!

 

[Golfloveruk]

Very few expect to be the best but I would think the vast majority who I have met would like to improve and some to try and be their own best.

Almost every golfer will say they want to improve. Very few actually do anything meaningful about it.
Going to the range and hitting a basket of balls once a week doesn’t really count.

I’ve heard loads of people grumble at losing a shot and rejoice at getting on back.

I suspect lots of people don’t put in general play scores is because they don’t want their handicap to drop.

My FiL believes you should only get pulled if you win a prize in a comp

 

[IanMac]

The game is meant to be enjoyed. It is a game not an exam.

Do you prefer winning or playing?

The enjoyment comes from trying to play your best and that's a physical and mental test. Those who are just playing for enjoyment might like to try something a bit easier.

 

[The Fader]

The most significant improvement is Slope.
That effectively gave high cappers strokes.
So the low cappers are complaining.

I wonder what the cap of the 'antis' are

GP cheating is a different issue and is really a club h'cap c'ee problem.

Not sure "improvement" is the terminology I would use.

But the introduction of slope has a profound influence on handicaps at many courses.

The powers that be say 113 is the magic number. This is way too low in my opinion. I must have played c.100 different courses since Slope became a thing. I can only recall a couple lower than 113!

Most courses fall between 125 and 135 in my experience so let's take 130 for the point I am going to make.

0 handicap still gets 0
5 handicap now gets 6
10 handicap now gets 12
15 handicap now gets 17
20 handicap now gets 23
25 handicap now gets 29
30 handicap now gets 35
35 handicap now gets 40
40 handicap now gets 46

I have ignored CR - Par because everybody gets that equally.

So the higher your handicap the more shots slope benefits you. And as I say above, the nominal 113 is way too low.

Going back to actual WHS - 8 out of 20 is too many. Move it to 4 or at a push 5 and I think a lot of the negativity would be removed.

It won't stop the manipulation that some on here think is rife - but let me ask this question - if you suspect there is manipulation afoot as opposed to just what you assume - how many of you have taken affirmative action and reported your suspicions??

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@The Fader No arguments with your point. One thing to add though, in your calculation, you do not then reduce for competition. Individual takes it to 95%, BB is 85%. They will take those numbers down to a degree. In individual comps it is somewhere between 1-2 shots, in BB it takes you back to the original number invariably. This reduces the gap between the changes.

 

[clubchamp98]

@The Fader No arguments with your point. One thing to add though, in your calculation, you do not then reduce for competition. Individual takes it to 95%, BB is 85%. They will take those numbers down to a degree. In individual comps it is somewhere between 1-2 shots, in BB it takes you back to the original number invariably. This reduces the gap between the changes.

So all that math to get back to where we were?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Few very low handicappers ever entered significant numbers of regular club comps. The only significant advantage higher handicappers have is in numbers - there are simply lots more of them.

And again with the pretence that only low(-ish) handicappers work on their game. Many don't, at all; and many higher handicappers work a lot harder than you.

And yet my stats said otherwise, unable to rubbish them you're surprisingly just chosen to utterly ignore them

 

[AussieKB]

I am a member of two clubs here in OZ, one a slope rating of 119 CR-par minus 1
the other a slope rating of 113 and CR-par minus 2.

Can tell you that the second course which is supposed to be easier is a lot harder, by
testament to a lot of friends who come from a different home course who can tell you that.

The main problem I see is that the courses are rated by an American System.

I play over 40 different courses a year......spent 30 days in England earlier this year
and I can tell you that what I think is an easy course is sometimes rated hard and
vice versa, both here and in England.

I put in over 120 cards a year for handicap, so I believe I know what I am talking about,
also play in more then one country every year, so I do see other then OZ.

What is the solution.....if your handicap is over 15....no change
if below then get used to being shafted.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

A non sequitur surely.
You work on your trade or profession. You play games for enjoyment.

If your enjoyment is all about being the best, by all means practice in order to improve. But most players don't want or expect to be the best. They want to simply enjoy playing.
There can only be one best in a competition most of the others are there to enjoy the experience.

You're just being ridiculous now. We all know what "work on your game" means, this (incorrect) pedantry has no place in the discussion

 

[IanMac]

@The Fader No arguments with your point. One thing to add though, in your calculation, you do not then reduce for competition. Individual takes it to 95%, BB is 85%. They will take those numbers down to a degree. In individual comps it is somewhere between 1-2 shots, in BB it takes you back to the original number invariably. This reduces the gap between the changes.

The system is flawed because it tries to create a handicap based on form but does not have a time based window. It could only succeed if everyone entered scores with the same frequency.

Just to add that I don't think a good system is form based anyway.

Form is temporary....

 

[Banchory Buddha]

The system is flawed because it tries to create a handicap based on form but does not have a time based window. It could only succeed if everyone entered scores with the same frequency.

Just to add that I don't think a good system is form based anyway.

Form is temporary....

Agreed, and is the biggest reason WHS isn't working, no way someone in a mini-slump should be getting up to 5 shots back, they then have massive slack in the index and will wipe up at some point

 

[wjemather]

And yet my stats said otherwise, unable to rubbish them you're surprisingly just chosen to utterly ignore them

Even with the errors you made (and the very small sample size), your data proved your outlandish claims to be false - scroll back about 15 pages for a recap.

I've simply chosen not to respond to you because you seem utterly incapable of being civil whenever anyone disagrees with you.

 

[Golfloveruk]

Even with the errors you made (and the very small sample size), your data proved your outlandish claims to be false - scroll back about 15 pages for a recap.

I've simply chosen not to respond to you because you seem utterly incapable of being civil whenever anyone disagrees with you.

Is that what he’s describing as statistics??

 

[wjemather]

I am a member of two clubs here in OZ, one a slope rating of 119 CR-par minus 1
the other a slope rating of 113 and CR-par minus 2.

Can tell you that the second course which is supposed to be easier is a lot harder, by
testament to a lot of friends who come from a different home course who can tell you that.

The main problem I see is that the courses are rated by an American System.

I play over 40 different courses a year......spent 30 days in England earlier this year
and I can tell you that what I think is an easy course is sometimes rated hard and
vice versa, both here and in England.

I put in over 120 cards a year for handicap, so I believe I know what I am talking about,
also play in more then one country every year, so I do see other then OZ.

What is the solution.....if your handicap is over 15....no change
if below then get used to being shafted.

Everyone has their own perception of what they find difficult on a golf course.
Rightly, the rating system is more objective that that, as it's based on model scratch and bogey players and standardised measurements.