Official WHS Survey

wjemather

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That's not what I said, is it? The committees are largely made up of long term golfers who quite often are, or have been, decent players.

Private clubs are clubs, not businesses. They don't have to make a profit.
Such committees could probably do with better reflecting their membership, with more average (or worse) players and fewer decent ones. The old boys club and lack of balance and diversity in the make up of many golf club committees is not a good thing.

They don't have to make a profit, but they do need income. Losing a few of the <5% would be a problem, but a small one; start losing the >95% and that would be a big problem.
 

IanMac

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Such committees could probably do with better reflecting their membership, with more average (or worse) players and fewer decent ones. The old boys club and lack of balance and diversity in the make up of many golf club committees is not a good thing.

They don't have to make a profit, but they do need income. Losing a few of the <5% would be a problem, but a small one; start losing the >95% and that would be a big problem.
Again, not my point. My point was that the decent players, mentioned in an earlier post, are more likely to stick at the game and be long term golfers. Long term golfers have more experience in golf and the club environment and subsequently make better committee members to steer the club. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a reflective group on the committee as long as they have the relevant experience.
 

clubchamp98

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Perhaps because the ones who used to win are no longer winning.
That’s right.
But at least they had a chance under the old system.
But now it’s almost impossible.

It’s been skewed to far to the middle handicappers and there is about 200 of them at every club ( just a guess)
So given the numbers one of them will have a day in the sun.
Divisions are helpful but there is only one winner.

Do you think it’s wrong for people who put time and effort into their game to have a chance to win?
Or do you think I should have to beat the course record to have a chance?
Because that’s what is happening.

Might not be at some clubs but that dosnt mean it’s not happening anywhere else.
Quite frankly golfers on here saying “ not happening at my club” I find that hard to belive.
 

clubchamp98

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Please show me where I have said I am right? I think you are confusing me with your WHS is bad crowd.

I have said my experience doesn’t reflect what you and others are presenting. It is you who thinks they are right!! I wouldn’t be so arrogant!

Single figure players are obviously decent. But the top end isn’t that good in the grand scheme of things, and that group seem to be the most disgruntled on here. They have an over inflated opinion of how good a player they are. If you are shooting in the 80s most of your rounds 🤷🤷🤷
I do think I’m right.
That’s why I am putting my point of view.

Just because you havnt seen what’s going on at golf clubs dosnt mean it isn’t happening.

I listen to what golfers are saying to me all over the country as I work on courses uk wide.

Single figures isn’t that good in your opinion 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ask the hoards of high cappers if they would like to be single figures.!!
 

IanMac

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Both clubs are traditional members clubs
You mentioned that you thought it was absolute cobblers when I suggested that clubs have been kept going for decades, and longer, by those who are 'decent' golfers. Your clubs have had committees made up across the spectrum of handicaps I presume? That's fair enough but I guess they all had long term experience in the game? Maybe not at all levels then?

Personally I think it helps, particularly the youngsters coming through, that the committee is made up of golfers who have had as much experience of the game as possible. The higher club level they've achieved the more likely they are to have insight and understanding of how best to steer their club for everyone's benefit.
 

2blue

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That’s right.
But at least they had a chance under the old system.
But now it’s almost impossible.

It’s been skewed to far to the middle handicappers and there is about 200 of them at every club ( just a guess)
So given the numbers one of them will have a day in the sun.
Divisions are helpful but there is only one winner.
I'd say it's the mid to higher H/cappers who are putting in more Q rounds of golf whereas the Lower guys are not & could easily be accused of H/cap protection for possible, vanity reasons. At my Club they certainly make-up the greatest number who are Deleting score intents for often dubious reasons with this including one of England's most significant team Captains.
As someone has already suggested, perhaps many low H/cappers are not really as good as they think they are, otherwise, they should maybe do better!
 

clubchamp98

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I'd say it's the mid to higher H/cappers who are putting in more Q rounds of golf whereas the Lower guys are not & could easily be accused of H/cap protection for possible, vanity reasons. At my Club they certainly make-up the greatest number who are Deleting score intents for often dubious reasons with this including one of England's most significant team Captains.
As someone has already suggested, perhaps many low H/cappers are not really as good as they think they are, otherwise, they should maybe do better!
That’s a sweeping statement.
If they are doing something wrong they should be called out no matter who they are.
But WHS relies on the competence of the comittiee some are good some not so.


I just don’t understand why anyone would want to keep their handicap down and make themselves uncompetitive.

Who is saying all these low handicappers think they are superstars.
There good golfers nothing more nothing less .
 

RichA

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So you're meaning the Open Golf scheme?

An absolute abomination, an unchecked farce, no way of scores being checked by SG, though they claim they will be, thankfully many clubs are now stopping these guys entering opens, and so they should. Wed not even touched on that here, but yes it's dreadful. And no they don't outnumber independent golfers, something less than 10,000 last time SG put out numbers
Didn't know it had a name, but whatever has allowed the million plus non-club members who play regular golf to get a handicap if they want. Apparently about 50,000 have done so and 10,000 then went on to join clubs.
That seems like doing something positive to me.
 

Banchory Buddha

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Didn't know it had a name, but whatever has allowed the million plus non-club members who play regular golf to get a handicap if they want. Apparently about 50,000 have done so and 10,000 then went on to join clubs.
That seems like doing something positive to me.
That'll be England then, I think Scotland was something around 2500, but, of course they also didn't give the numbers who had given up membership in favour of this pocket-lining scheme from Scottish Golf (and others)
 

RichA

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That'll be England then, I think Scotland was something around 2500, but, of course they also didn't give the numbers who had given up membership in favour of this pocket-lining scheme from Scottish Golf (and others)
I believe it's the Illuminati running things down here. Not sure about Scotland - probably the French.
 

Golfloveruk

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You mentioned that you thought it was absolute cobblers when I suggested that clubs have been kept going for decades, and longer, by those who are 'decent' golfers. Your clubs have had committees made up across the spectrum of handicaps I presume? That's fair enough but I guess they all had long term experience in the game? Maybe not at all levels then?

Personally I think it helps, particularly the youngsters coming through, that the committee is made up of golfers who have had as much experience of the game as possible. The higher club level they've achieved the more likely they are to have insight and understanding of how best to steer their club for everyone's benefit.
I don’t disagree that clubs should, in part because run by people who are experienced in the game. However, you don’t need to be a good player to be an experienced player and a good Candidate to run a club.

Golf clubs need a mix of people to run them effectively. One of my clubs was nearly run into the ground by long serving members who were very experienced golfers. They simply didn’t know how to run a multi million pound business.
It took a younger group who ran their own businesses to mount a takeover at an AGM to turn it round over a number of years.

I think a lot of older people don’t appreciate that the way people play golf has changed. Covid to some extent accelerated the change. Certainly more than WHS.

Many younger people just want to play golf with their mates. They have no interest in being part of ‘the club’ and it doesn’t hold any meaning to them at all like it does older generations.
They don’t want to play in drawn comps every weekend when their time is limited. I certainly don’t. And wouldn’t play anywhere that insists on it.

Clubs that are run by people who cling on to the good old days will eventually start to struggle.
 

2blue

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I don’t disagree that clubs should, in part because run by people who are experienced in the game. However, you don’t need to be a good player to be an experienced player and a good Candidate to run a club.

Golf clubs need a mix of people to run them effectively. One of my clubs was nearly run into the ground by long serving members who were very experienced golfers. They simply didn’t know how to run a multi million pound business.
It took a younger group who ran their own businesses to mount a takeover at an AGM to turn it round over a number of years.

I think a lot of older people don’t appreciate that the way people play golf has changed. Covid to some extent accelerated the change. Certainly more than WHS.

Many younger people just want to play golf with their mates. They have no interest in being part of ‘the club’ and it doesn’t hold any meaning to them at all like it does older generations.
They don’t want to play in drawn comps every weekend when their time is limited. I certainly don’t. And wouldn’t play anywhere that insists on it.

Clubs that are run by people who cling on to the good old days will eventually start to struggle.
Yes, we in a Propriety Club, have had that happening quite noticeably over the last few years with numbers in Sat Comps dropping.
 

doublebogey7

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That'll be England then, I think Scotland was something around 2500, but, of course they also didn't give the numbers who had given up membership in favour of this pocket-lining scheme from Scottish Golf (and others)
In England you cannot join igolf until at least 6 months after giving up membership. Hardly making fast sums of dosh given the mere £40 charge and not insignificant costs involved.
 

IanMac

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I don’t disagree that clubs should, in part because run by people who are experienced in the game. However, you don’t need to be a good player to be an experienced player and a good Candidate to run a club.

Golf clubs need a mix of people to run them effectively. One of my clubs was nearly run into the ground by long serving members who were very experienced golfers. They simply didn’t know how to run a multi million pound business.
It took a younger group who ran their own businesses to mount a takeover at an AGM to turn it round over a number of years.

I think a lot of older people don’t appreciate that the way people play golf has changed. Covid to some extent accelerated the change. Certainly more than WHS.

Many younger people just want to play golf with their mates. They have no interest in being part of ‘the club’ and it doesn’t hold any meaning to them at all like it does older generations.
They don’t want to play in drawn comps every weekend when their time is limited. I certainly don’t. And wouldn’t play anywhere that insists on it.

Clubs that are run by people who cling on to the good old days will eventually start to struggle.
You don't but if you are then you're more likely to stick at it and be valuable within your club setup.

WHS has made competition less fun and fair for many, if not all, low handicap players. Even if they are not in the majority they are an important part of club golf and we need a handicap system that is inclusive for everyone.

Either we fix WHS or we take a step back to use the previous system that didn't create this problem. As Dunesman said, no one asked for this new system.
 

wjemather

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In England you cannot join igolf until at least 6 months after giving up membership. Hardly making fast sums of dosh given the mere £40 charge and not insignificant costs involved.
Having queried one of our former members iGolf accounts, it seems that this has recently been reduced to 30 days.
 

wjemather

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That seems crazy, may as well be 1 day as 30 days, if you trying to use it as an incentive to remain a club member.
As far as I know, the waiting period was demanded by clubs but I can't see any real justification for it as maintaining a handicap has to be pretty low on the list of reasons to remain a club member if the offering isn't providing value for money.
 

Steve Wilkes

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I think that blaming WHS or any system that could have been implemented, is one of those easy excuses for not playing regularly on a Saturday or Sunday morning. All sports and activities have died off in the last 10 to 15 years or so. In the past people had a regular pattern, but now spread their time on more various activities and life's duties.

You get the excuses, I've given up golf because of slow play. yet if it still only took 3 and half hours the droves would not all of a sudden start playing every week again
If you had an handicap system that gave everyone of 150 entries an exact 1 in 150 chance of winning (Impossible to devise), would make no difference in participation, they would just find another excuse to not play in the monthly medal.
 

Banchory Buddha

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As far as I know, the waiting period was demanded by clubs but I can't see any real justification for it as maintaining a handicap has to be pretty low on the list of reasons to remain a club member if the offering isn't providing value for money.
*Having a handicap is pretty low on reasons for being a club member

*England &Scottish golf....."I know, let's create a club whose only purpose is having a handicap with no other benefits"

Brilliant 🤣🤣
 
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