Official WHS Survey

[Deleted member 30522]

Same with the Welsh and English derivatives. Understand the intention, but they ignored the implications!

And also fair to say, not really WHS, it could have been done under any system, that's technology that's enabled this to take place that came in to run concurrently with WHS. But yeah let's "credit" WHS with this as well

 

[C7usk]

What are these non-traditional clubs? No clubs have been formed thanks to WHS, what a bizarre statement

How is it progress, you literally don't know because you never used UHS? You can't say a system is good, when you have no barometer, we're saying it's miles worse, you're saying no it's great because you like it. But maybe - and here's an amazing thought - if you played something more fit for purpose you'd like that better?

You don't have to have tried something to form your own opinion...i quite liked this thread when it started....certainly stirring up some passion between folk who like WHS and those who don't.. Maybe too much... ... I still like it though needs tweaked... Played on Wednesday and couldn't put a GP card in aas course shortened for the winter... It just wasn't the same.. So much so that I haven't played today as would've been the same... And that is not like me at all... I'll play in pretty much anything..

 

[Deleted member 36483]

You don't have to have tried something to form your own opinion...i quite liked this thread when it started....certainly stirring up some passion between folk who like WHS and those who don't.. Maybe too much... ... I still like it though needs tweaked... Played on Wednesday and couldn't put a GP card in aas course shortened for the winter... It just wasn't the same.. So much so that I haven't played today as would've been the same... And that is not like me at all... I'll play in pretty much anything..

If you detect passion it's because the handicap system is the bedrock of amateur golf and, if golf's what you do then, it is troubling to see it being dumbed down.

What do I mean by being dumbed down?
Some say that the previous system favoured low handicappers. I disagree with that but I believe it did favour a particular group. That group was golfers who applied themselves by practicing and learning. Many got their handicaps low but some, less physically strong players, had fairly high handicaps albeit rarely over 18.

So, if you have applied yourself to the game for a significant time you are less likely to embrace WHS which swings the balance in favour of those who maybe don't have the same level of application. That approach might get more people started but it won't keep them interested for long and risks losing the core that already exists.

It is important this gets fixed soon.

 

[AussieKB]

Not sure if I've asked this before but I had thought that WHS was based largely on the old OZ system. Was I wrong? What is so different now that has caused the discontent?

I know there are some differences now in WHS as opposed to the RoW (eg DH & 93%).

When it was introduced here, we have had at least 6 changes to the original version, and it is still not liked, UK have had our modified version so you are lucky that you have not gone through all the teething, but still by this forum there are a lot of unhappy people.

I played today in a 4BBB and the winning score of 50 points was by a pair of 25 & 27 handicappers, this is very normal here, I played off a 3 handicap so it was a waste of time for me and my partner off a 18, and I feel I let him down, but I would have had to shoot the course record and still not helped him.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

When it was introduced here, we have had at least 6 changes to the original version, and it is still not liked, UK have had our modified version so you are lucky that you have not gone through all the teething, but still by this forum there are a lot of unhappy people.

I played today in a 4BBB and the winning score of 50 points was by a pair of 25 & 27 handicappers, this is very normal here, I played off a 3 handicap so it was a waste of time for me and my partner off a 18, and I feel I let him down, but I would have had to shoot the course record and still not helped him.

Winners conversation with wives when they get home goes something like this...

Him.
Me and Bert just won the competition today.

Her.
You and Bert?

Him.
Yep.

Her.
But you are rubbish and so is Bert.

Him.
Yep.

Based on a true story. An old fella came into my shop last year to ask me how come his twin sons won a 4BBB competition because they were, according to him, really bad at golf.

 

[AussieKB]

I played away today and just got home and looking at today's scores at my home club,
winner 44 points off 17
then on 40 points 18,28 & 15
then 39 points 21
then 38 points 27, 13 & 16

I could go on but what is the point.

 

[Slab]

I used to pick up the odd win under the old handicap system but since whs and GP cards came in I've no chance since my handicap came down

18 under old system 13.3 under new, boo!

 

[Backache]

I used to pick up the odd win under the old handicap system but since whs and GP cards came in I've no chance since my handicap came down

18 under old system 13.3 under new, boo!

I think you're missing out on the great advantage of the new system . In order to win what you should be doing is not improving your golf but pushing up your handicap which we can all do now much more easily.

 

[Slab]

I think you're missing out on the great advantage of the new system . In order to win what you should be doing is not improving your golf but pushing up your handicap which we can all do now much more easily.

33 points in today's comp, if I'm really honest I left 2 maybe 3 shots out there, still not enough for ap placing even though I played really well

Id like to tell you what the winner of my division scored but results was mostly in French so I haven't a clue

Edit: its challenging to know if the French bloke says its a provisional or he's hitting three off the tee

 

[PaulMdj]

Winners conversation with wives when they get home goes something like this...

Him.
Me and Bert just won the competition today.

Her.
You and Bert?

Him.
Yep.

Her.
But you are rubbish and so is Bert.

Him.
Yep.

Based on a true story. An old fella came into my shop last year to ask me how come his twin sons won a 4BBB competition because they were, according to him, really bad at golf.

I agree with 95% of what you’ve posted, but the scenario above could of happened under any handicap system.

Playing any handicap system you risk coming up against someone having their “day in the sun”

Under WHS you may of lost by 10 pts and under the old system 4pts (for example) but you’d of still lost.

I tend to ignore handicap comp moans for our single figure and plus golfers because under any system they risk the player off a high handicap having his day.

One aside from this, one of 4BBB Board Comps was won recently with 43pts, team was a guy of 18 and a +4 golfer. Sometimes it happens.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I think you're missing out on the great advantage of the new system . In order to win what you should be doing is not improving your golf but pushing up your handicap which we can all do now much more easily.

I got down to 5 in 1977.
I've been down to 3 and up to 6 a few times and once made it to 6.6 very briefly.
In all those years, whether I was off 3, 4 or 5, which was most of the time, I always felt I had a chance to win a board comp.
I won one time with 38 points off 4, two comps with a nett 4-under off 4 and a vs par comp with 4-up off 4. That is over the course of a few decades.
I never felt that those scores gave higher handicaps LESS chance of winning.
I feel I have very little chance of doing that now.
My best round this year in a board comp was 41 points Thanks to CR-Par giving me and everyone else (nearly) an extra shot. I came 4th place. This usual now.
This is all on the same course.
I don't enter the handicap knockout. That is something I feel has been taken away from me.

I still get the same enjoyment from golf.
It is me against the course, one I've been playing for donkey's, and on any day I know how well I have done compared with my performances in the past.

The less skilled golfer is having more fun than before by winning stuff, but at my, and others like me, expense of lessening enjoyment and lessening willingness to participate.
The days of good golfers winning nett comps is gone. This is the reality at my club.
I don't let it get me down. I continue to play every hole to the best of my ability and have the same desire as I ever had to see my handicap come down by playing well.
My name is on several boards from 1977 to 2019.
Doubt it will be any more.
But if it does happen - boy oh boy - will I be chuffed.

HI is 4.6 for the winter. Next year it is coming down. I have decided to get better.
Sod the system. Its my game and I'm going to continue doing it.

 

[Deleted member 36483]

I agree with 95% of what you’ve posted, but the scenario above could of happened under any handicap system.

Playing any handicap system you risk coming up against someone having their “day in the sun”

Under WHS you may of lost by 10 pts and under the old system 4pts (for example) but you’d of still lost.

I tend to ignore handicap comp moans for our single figure and plus golfers because under any system they risk the player off a high handicap having his day.

One aside from this, one of 4BBB Board Comps was won recently with 43pts, team was a guy of 18 and a +4 golfer. Sometimes it happens.

Yes, it could, but unlikely with 50 points. In 47 years I've never been near that playing with many different people off various handicaps. Maybe 45 points on the odd occasion.

I could go into detail how I think this is happening due to net double bogeys being awarded and average of 8 too generous for higher handicaps but I won't.

 

[PaulMdj]

Yes, it could, but unlikely with 50 points. In 47 years I've never been near that playing with many different people off various handicaps. Maybe 45 points on the odd occasion.

I could go into detail how I think this is happening due to net double bogeys being awarded and average of 8 too generous for higher handicaps but I won't.

Probably like yourselves the majority of Comps were 18 max, now, I do understand why the limit of 54 was brought in, but it has took Clubs sometime to get to grips with that impact.

For us we have limited Board Comps to 24 to win the Comp and handicaps above that can play off full handicap for handicap purposes only.

Initially we had people playing of 40+ winning comps and only having 4-5 cards in their record.

I believe it is better now and will continue to improve.

The other end of the scale we’ve had low single figures guys not entering comps or putting in cards to ensure they keep their handicap low enough to be able to enter some of the more prestigious Comps in the region.

 

[wjemather]

I played away today and just got home and looking at today's scores at my home club,
winner 44 points off 17
then on 40 points 18,28 & 15
then 39 points 21
then 38 points 27, 13 & 16

I could go on but what is the point.

Given that it appears that none even managed to beat their handicap by more than 1 stroke (maybe they did not even play to handicap), I assume the point is that the low handicappers simply did not score well today and (unsurprisingly) were not seen near the top of the leaderboard.

 

[C7usk]

Our seniors have just put up the rules for their winter knockouts... A minimum of 6 qualifying competitions in 12 month period and a max of 18...

 

[wjemather]

Our seniors have just put up the rules for their winter knockouts... A minimum of 6 qualifying competitions in 12 month period and a max of 18...

That rules out the majority then.

 

[clubchamp98]

Our seniors have just put up the rules for their winter knockouts... A minimum of 6 qualifying competitions in 12 month period and a max of 18...

This is going to happen more and more imo.
Golfers who have put some work into their game are fed up with WHS .
If higher cappers want to organise their own comps so be it.

They must have had a vote and majority voted for this.??

 

[C7usk]

This is going to happen more and more imo.
Golfers who have put some work into their game are fed up with WHS .
If higher cappers want to organise their own comps so be it.

They must have had a vote and majority voted for this.??

It sounds fair enough.. There will be winter greens and tees during the majority of the knockouts so a much shorter course..
I don't know the details of how this came about, just got an email from match secretary..
I wouldn't be surprised if similar entry rules get applied to normal comps... We definitely have a lot more divisional prizes than before..
As I've said I like WHS but things like this certainly sounds like an improvement..

 

[Deleted member 36483]

That rules out the majority then.

It sounds fair enough.. There will be winter greens and tees during the majority of the knockouts so a much shorter course..
I don't know the details of how this came about, just got an email from match secretary..
I wouldn't be surprised if similar entry rules get applied to normal comps... We definitely have a lot more divisional prizes than before..
As I've said I like WHS but things like this certainly sounds like an improvement..

Did they have to have special rules before WHS?

 

[wjemather]

Did they have to have special rules before WHS?

Many clubs operate 18 and 24 limits for men's comps dating back to when the maximum handicap was increased above that under the old system(s).