No hooks...but...toe strikes?!

[AmandaJR]

Stableford Comp today and played like a dream for 13 holes at which point I was 1 under gross (flipping heck). Par 5, 14th and drive was the first one left of target but a bit of a pull more than a hook. Hybrid 2nd shot and felt hooky at the top but rescued something almost straight but more left than desired! Wedge to green, playing left to right across to target (can give me alignment issues) and at the top I know I'm in trouble and only just laid club on ball (toe strike) and way right of target. Anyone looking might think it was an unmentionable but it was toe (barely).

Par 3 15th and a 7 iron which was a very strong draw (borderline hook) so things feeling very wobbly!

Par 4 16th and great 4 wood into prime position. I was worried it would hook but tried to feel a bit more upright on the way back (club, not me) and it was fine. Wedge to green...oh oh...exactly the same as the 14th (right to left aim though) and I knew at the top I couldn't rescue it. Straight right into the rubbish but a lucky break saw me get a 5. Took a provisional and 2 aborted swings as the position at the top was way wrong - just don't know why. When I did hit it I knew I could and it was a beauty **think** it was more upright and less flat but can't be sure.

Finished the round ok, although no more full wedges required, and an 8 iron to the last which was left of target but from the rough and swing felt ok at the top.

This has struck me before (wrong at top, toe...) and I've never got topside of what is happening. I did wonder if I'd stopped turning my shoulders a bit and too armsy on the take away. Or rather the sequence was wrong and a handsy/armsy take away. Feeling more connected seemed to help today. Or do I get too narrow on the way back and right elbow collapses too soon. It is always worse with wedges but can strike any club and I can feel it's wrong at the top but not why...

Any thoughts?

 

[bobmac]

Do you hit the wedges hard?

 

[AmandaJR]

Do you hit the wedges hard?

I'd say yes and at the weekend hit a couple very hard and a bit thin! The weird thing is the sense I have very early in the swing that things are amiss. Sometimes I can rescue it and the end result is a corker BUT the worst ones are barely club on ball. Don't usually have such an open face on them at impact though - the rescue feels like I have to hold it off/hit later so as not to pull/hook it.

 

[the_coach]

Make sure your hands aren't coming into impact rising up some, so they're a little ways higher through impact than they were at address. Will raise the shaft plane steeper into impact, so heel off the ground, leaving the only part of the face to be able to get to the ball being the toe.

 

[bobmac]

Sounds as if you may be snatching at the top before your backswing has finished which can cause the swing to go left.

Observe, digest and imitate

[video=youtube;MMpqhNZp37g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMpqhNZp37g[/video]

 

[AmandaJR]

I do snatch a bit when anxious so that would worsen if I suddenly hit a shocker. I can feel before the transition too that something is amiss so perhaps rush from there...BUT...wish I could figure what I feel and why

Could the face be shut at the top?? If I roll my arms on the take-away and open the face is it then shut by the top?? Whenever I've done this in slo mo it seems to happen which is very confusing!

 

[AmandaJR]

Also - clubs custom fit at 1.5 degrees flat but over 2 years ago - could be my swing has developed so that's too flat??

 

[bobmac]

If I roll my arms on the take-away and open the face is it then shut by the top??

If it was shut at the top, the face would be pointing at the sky which is unlikely if you roll your arms on the take-away

Get a club and swing back to waist height
Is the face angled down like below?

 

[AmandaJR]

If it was shut at the top, the face would be pointing at the sky which is unlikely if you roll your arms on the take-away

Get a club and swing back to waist height
Is the face angled down like below?

That's what I try to do and get it right sometimes, but my flaw is to roll it and possibly toe up at that point. If I over exaggerate a roll open by then so face at sky, then take continue to the top it still looks at the sky...or is that just carrying on too flat and not what happens in reality?

 

[bobmac]

That's what I try to do and get it right sometimes, but my flaw is to roll it and possibly toe up at that point. If I over exaggerate a roll open by then so face at sky, then take continue to the top it still looks at the sky...or is that just carrying on too flat and not what happens in reality?

So you roll your arms on the backswing and the clubface points at the sky at the top?

 

[AmandaJR]

So you roll your arms on the backswing and the clubface points at the sky at the top?

I think so - can't be 100% sure but the "wrong" feeling I can sense makes me think it's shut and if I over exaggerate a quick roll of arms (hardly any shoulder turn) and carry on it is shut at the top. That's all slo mo though and feel not necessarily real! I think (THINK...) I sometimes rescue it by holding the release which in fact stops a flip and can be a corker...all conjecture though as have never really worked it out and somehow I work it out of my game without fully understanding it.

Edit - swinging slowly in lounge (dangerous!) and as long as I take the club away nice and connected with the triangle of arms and shoulders working together then it feels in the right place.

 

[bobmac]

I think so - can't be 100% sure but the "wrong" feeling I can sense makes me think it's shut and if I over exaggerate a quick roll of arms (hardly any shoulder turn) and carry on it is shut at the top. That's all slo mo though and feel not necessarily real! I think (THINK...) I sometimes rescue it by holding the release which in fact stops a flip and can be a corker...all conjecture though as have never really worked it out and somehow I work it out of my game without fully understanding it.

Edit - swinging slowly in lounge (dangerous!) and as long as I take the club away nice and connected with the triangle of arms and shoulders working together then it feels in the right place.

It's tricky to know whats going on.
If you could get a vid and post it up here or send it to me, it would be a big help.
One thing is for sure, you dont want to be rolling your wrists/arms on the backswing.

 

[AmandaJR]

It's tricky to know whats going on.
If you could get a vid and post it up here or send it to me, it would be a big help.
One thing is for sure, you dont want to be rolling your wrists/arms on the backswing.

Ok. Practice tomorrow so will see if I can get a video on my phone. Thanks Bob.

 

[the_coach]

Practice tomorrow so will see if I can get a video on my phone.

One thing it would be worth checking, is as you take the club away up into the backswing & turn to the top, that you have not increased your vertical height a little ways. The common (although not always) reaction in the downswing, if this has happened any, is the brain compensates on instinct to sink the vertical height back down to get back to the height at address, bot again often this auto correction is oft times is a little too much.

So again coming into delivery towards impact another auto-pilot compensation is made that raises the posture some to prevent striking the ground but in doing this also raises the arms & hands into impact, steepening the shaft angle into impact, which re my earlier post places the toe to the ball through impact.

If you can get your swing on the phone. {even if only for you to check yourself}

Try to take the vid from DTL with phone looking down towards target from directly behind the hands at a height around hip height framed so the clubhead would be in shot at the top of your backswing.

Then if you have an Golf app on your phone (lots of free ones about to download if you've not already) that allow you draw lines & circles on the vid you load into them.

Then at a still frame of address (say a swing with a 6i or 7i) draw a small horizontal line at the top of your head, use the circle tool to draw a circle around your hands, & if the app allows draw a line over the shaft of the club too.

Then when you play the recorded swing it should be clearer if the vertical height changes over much (it will change a little most likely but a little isn't an issue) also your hands ideally would return to impact pretty much through the circle (again it won't be exactly the same most likely but again a little change not an issue) also it will show you where the shaft plane is at impact.

So if there are a ways changes in your overall vertical height, & the hands a ways up out of the drawn circle & shaft a deal steeper, so all are more than a little to the high side of things so it's more likely to present the toe or toe end of the face to ball at impact.

 

[AmandaJR]

One thing it would be worth checking, is as you take the club away up into the backswing & turn to the top, that you have not increased your vertical height a little ways. The common (although not always) reaction in the downswing, if this has happened any, is the brain compensates on instinct to sink the vertical height back down to get back to the height at address, bot again often this auto correction is oft times is a little too much.

So again coming into delivery towards impact another auto-pilot compensation is made that raises the posture some to prevent striking the ground but in doing this also raises the arms & hands into impact, steepening the shaft angle into impact, which re my earlier post places the toe to the ball through impact.

If you can get your swing on the phone. {even if only for you to check yourself}

Try to take the vid from DTL with phone looking down towards target from directly behind the hands at a height around hip height framed so the clubhead would be in shot at the top of your backswing.

Then if you have an Golf app on your phone (lots of free ones about to download if you've not already) that allow you draw lines & circles on the vid you load into them.

Then at a still frame of address (say a swing with a 6i or 7i) draw a small horizontal line at the top of your head, use the circle tool to draw a circle around your hands, & if the app allows draw a line over the shaft of the club too.

Then when you play the recorded swing it should be clearer if the vertical height changes over much (it will change a little most likely but a little isn't an issue) also your hands ideally would return to impact pretty much through the circle (again it won't be exactly the same most likely but again a little change not an issue) also it will show you where the shaft plane is at impact.

So if there are a ways changes in your overall vertical height, & the hands a ways up out of the drawn circle & shaft a deal steeper, so all are more than a little to the high side of things so it's more likely to present the toe or toe end of the face to ball at impact.

Thanks Coach. My last lesson worked on my posture as I'd got a little too upright which was hampering my attempts to get more shoulder tilt which is another work in progress! It could therefore be that I feel this change and attempt to correct it somehow by raising up in the backswing. I'll see how effectively I can balance my phone and check those positions out.