New Rules 2019 - Out of Bounds

[Beedee]

Where the ball is is what matters. It doesn't matter what route it took to get there.
If it crossed the OOB margin last and finished there, that is what counts.

Thank you

 

[clubchamp98]

If this was directed just at Beedee, then fair enough. You presumably know him. If it's a generalisation about what all golfers would do, it's untenable. The model local rule seems clear enough: you need a patch of closely mown ground such as a forward tee or a grass path.

I can already hear our ladies section complaining that the men are dropping on the ladies tee and taking lots of divots ( which you don’t replace of course) on a tee H&S.
The ladies tee on some holes at my club will get hammered.
As a few of them are just before the fairway starts but 80yds forward of men’s tees.
So most clubs will be more or less forced to cut a path to fairway height from all tees.
This would make sense to do anyway to protect the tees.

 

[jusme]

I don't think I have seen in mentioned in this thread yet, but for me its use will be of more interest in Par 3's of the tee and/or approach shots into greens where balls are lost or OOB (be that 2nd shots into par 4's/5's). This local rule will allow drops on or very near the fringes of greens in circumstances where the fringe is the reference point and in the drop zone.

I already know people who will be using this and would never consider a provisional as the OOB is so close to the green. I find this more advantageous than of the tee

 

[Colin L]

I'm not picturing that too well, but no matter. If it were thought that certain holes were not suitable for the application of the LR, you could exclude them and still have it applying to others.

 

[duncan mackie]

I don't think I have seen in mentioned in this thread yet, but for me its use will be of more interest in Par 3's of the tee and/or approach shots into greens where balls are lost or OOB (be that 2nd shots into par 4's/5's). This local rule will allow drops on or very near the fringes of greens in circumstances where the fringe is the reference point and in the drop zone.

I already know people who will be using this and would never consider a provisional as the OOB is so close to the green. I find this more advantageous than of the tee

I understand what you are saying but would highlight that the nearer to the hole you are the larger the arc impact will be ie If you lose your ball in an area 20yds left of the green (say 30 yds left of the hole itself) you will be dropping within 2cl of the left side of the fairway margin 30 yds short (not likely to be on the fringe).

Furthermore, the design of many courses will have any green side bunkers short left and right, which will now need to be negotiated!

So I don't see it as any great get out of jail free card - or even an advantage over the option to replay, in just about any situation. However I'm sure there will be one such situation out there, somewhere.

 

[Colin L]

I'm not picturing that too well, but no matter. If it were thought that certain holes were not suitable for the application of the LR, you could exclude them and still have it applying to others.

Not, I should add, that I like that idea! I'm a firm believer in the minimising the chance of confusing players.

 

[jusme]

Quick question - where is the text and outline of this local rule in the various guides online

 

[jusme]

I understand what you are saying but would highlight that the nearer to the hole you are the larger the arc impact will be ie If you lose your ball in an area 20yds left of the green (say 30 yds left of the hole itself) you will be dropping within 2cl of the left side of the fairway margin 30 yds short (not likely to be on the fringe).

Furthermore, the design of many courses will have any green side bunkers short left and right, which will now need to be negotiated!

So I don't see it as any great get out of jail free card - or even an advantage over the option to replay, in just about any situation. However I'm sure there will be one such situation out there, somewhere.

There are indeed such holes. We have a par 3 where OOB is less than 10 yards from the left side of green. Depending on pin position it is indeed possible that a drop on the fringe is possible, however I am aware of your general point

 

[Colin L]

Quick question - where is the text and outline of this local rule in the various guides online

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/committee-procedures/8e#e-5

 

[rulefan]

Quick question - where is the text and outline of this local rule in the various guides online

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/committee-procedures/8e

See all of 5E in this section

 

[KenL]

This is the wording for the LR which covers exactly the situation you describe

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

Not going to be easy to fit that on the back of a scorecard!

 

[rulefan]

No need for it to be on the card. Publish the full LR on a notice board and simply say on the card

"The Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds is in force"

 

[jim8flog]

We have yet to have a meeting to decide whether or not to adopt.

I am going to suggest slightly different wording to rulefan, which enables us to decide at some later date to adopt or not for which holes and when. We have holes where this rule may not be possible to implement.

Something like 'The alternative rule for Lost Ball and Out of bounds, where and when it is in force will be displayed on the Course Information notice board.

I think I will be suggesting not having it for short par 3s where the walk back to the tee is fairly insignificant.

 

[rulefan]

"The Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds is in force
on holes x, y & z
or
is in force except on holes x, y & z "

 

[Twire]

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/committee-procedures/8e#e-5

Well, this is interesting....

"A Committee may introduce such a Local Rule for all play on the course or only for one or two specific holes where it may be especially useful (for example, where players are unable to see the landing area and therefore may not know whether or not to play a provisional ball)."

When I suggested this was the case back in March, one of the rules gurus on here said "I can see no possible difference between one hole and another that would justify applying it only to certain holes. If you give this option at one hole, on what grounds would you deny a player the same option at another? It makes no sense and I'd be astonished if it had even crossed the rule-makers' minds.", well there you go, what do I know .

 

[rulefan]

I wonder why they didn't mention it in the original wording.

 

[Twire]

I wonder why they didn't mention it in the original wording.

I've not got a clue.

I was told of this by someone on the rules committee, I passed on that information, and was practically ridiculed for it.

 

[rulefan]

I must admit I was doubtful at first but changed my mind (before the new words appeared) when I thought further about it.

 

[KenL]

I don't think I have seen in mentioned in this thread yet, but for me its use will be of more interest in Par 3's of the tee and/or approach shots into greens where balls are lost or OOB (be that 2nd shots into par 4's/5's). This local rule will allow drops on or very near the fringes of greens in circumstances where the fringe is the reference point and in the drop zone.

I already know people who will be using this and would never consider a provisional as the OOB is so close to the green. I find this more advantageous than of the tee

This would certainly be the case at my club. The 16th is a narrow par 3 with an OOB wall left of the green and the beach (lateral WH) on the right.

On Saturday in a medal (see my other post) in horrendous winds my tee shot was carried over the wall. I then had to play again and no surprise this one went on the beach. I dropped and eventually scored 8. Dropping somewhere near the wall, I would probably have recorded a 5 or 6.

 

[jusme]

This would certainly be the case at my club. The 16th is a narrow par 3 with an OOB wall left of the green and the beach (lateral WH) on the right.

On Saturday in a medal (see my other post) in horrendous winds my tee shot was carried over the wall. I then had to play again and no surprise this one went on the beach. I dropped and eventually scored 8. Dropping somewhere near the wall, I would probably have recorded a 5 or 6.

Yes, we have the same type of par 3. When dropping under the local rule, 5 is very likely and 6 at the very worst. I have seen double figures on that hole many a time. I see little advantage under stableford system but under medal the big number is gone.....if LR used of course. I await to see what my course will do