New Rules 2019 - Out of Bounds

[rulefan]

Regardless of the sport if the ball ends up OOB you have to hit "reset" to return it to play. In golf that is S&D. You move the ball from OOB to the field to reset. In golf that is walking to the tee, in soccer it is tossing the ball back on the field. The new OOB LR does not use a reset to get back in play, it just continues play like from a WH.

So, in golf it is now move the ball from OOB to a specified position on the field to reset as opposed to move a different specified position on the field to reset.

 

[clubchamp98]

So, in golf it is now move the ball from OOB to a specified position on the field to reset as opposed to move a different specified position on the field to reset.

Move it to a estimated not specified position depending on the honesty of the player.
We all know how that’s going to go.
There are already cheats in golf and this is just helping them.

You don’t restart a soccer/ rugby match in the centre of the pitch if it goes out on the sidelines.
Drop by the boundary oob 2CL fair enough , but on the fairway regardless of how wide the miss is is nonesense.

 

[atticusfinch]

So, in golf it is now move the ball from OOB to a specified position on the field to reset as opposed to move a different specified position on the field to reset.

The new LR reset is complete on dropping the ball. The way it is supposxed to be is reset is not complete till the ball has been put into play with a stroke.

 

[duncan mackie]

The new LR reset is complete on dropping the ball. The way it is supposxed to be is reset is not complete till the ball has been put into play with a stroke.

That would confuse the hell out of average Joe!

As it stands there is suffice consistency for him to get it right with a little thought.

 

[rulefan]

The new LR reset is complete on dropping the ball. The way it is supposxed to be is reset is not complete till the ball has been put into play with a stroke.

Why do you say 'the way it is supposed to be' ?
At present the 'reset' is the drop unless being played from the teeing ground.

 

[Colin L]

The new LR reset is complete on dropping the ball. The way it is supposxed to be is reset is not complete till the ball has been put into play with a stroke.

Like Rulefan, I was puzzled by this. Are you overlooking that if a ball is lost or hit OOB with a second or subsequent stroke (provided it's not from the teeing ground), the subsituted ball is in play as soon as it is dropped?

 

[atticusfinch]

My bad. I was focused on an OOB penalty shot occuring in a teeing ground when the substitute is put into play with a stroke. I did not consider replay from the previous location which could be the fairway when the sub ball is in play at the drop. Apologies. (Still my main objection of the new LR is that it approximates a recovery shot that is not allowed.)

But as the now acceptable phrase says: that's a rub of the green.

 

[Colin L]

Move it to a estimated not specified position depending on the honesty of the player.
We all know how that’s going to go.
There are already cheats in golf and this is just helping them.

You don’t restart a soccer/ rugby match in the centre of the pitch if it goes out on the sidelines.
Drop by the boundary oob 2CL fair enough , but on the fairway regardless of how wide the miss is is nonesense.

What would be your alternative to relief from losing a ball in a water hazard, since estimating where your ball crossed the margin is presumably just helping the cheats?

How you restart a soccer or a rugby match if the ball goes out of play is completely irrelevant. Rugby, in any case, isn't a great example. If an attacker kicks the ball out of play even in the corner of the in-goal area, the defending teams gets a drop-out 22 metres up the park - anywhere from the left to the right touchline, including the centre of the pitch.

 

[clubchamp98]

What would be your alternative to relief from losing a ball in a water hazard, since estimating where your ball crossed the margin is presumably just helping the cheats?

How you restart a soccer or a rugby match if the ball goes out of play is completely irrelevant. Rugby, in any case, isn't a great example. If an attacker kicks the ball out of play even in the corner of the in-goal area, the defending teams gets a drop-out 22 metres up the park - anywhere from the left to the right touchline, including the centre of the pitch.

I never started the other sport comparisons just answered one post! ( from Rulefan I think)post #118.

This rule isn’t changing as far as I can see is it ?

This was about the oob rule where you drop on the fairway!
In a hazard you have to keep point of entry between you and the flag, or 2CL in a lateral not march 50yds and drop on the fairway!

 

[Colin L]

I never started the other sport comparisons just answered one post! ( from Rulefan I think)post #118.

This rule isn’t changing as far as I can see is it ?

This was about the oob rule where you drop on the fairway!
In a hazard you have to keep point of entry between you and the flag, or 2CL in a lateral not march 50yds and drop on the fairway!

The reference to relief from a water hazard was simply to suggest that it is as open to the cheats to "estimate" over generously where there ball crossed the margin of the hazard and yet that rule does not seem to be challenged on that basis.

It could be that your dropping point from a water hazard is 50 yards away from where your ball landed - or sank. And on a fairway. The difference, of course, is that with the new local rule you are guaranteed the fairway possibility but it costs you a stroke more than water hazard relief.

 

[duncan mackie]

The reference to relief from a water hazard was simply to suggest that it is as open to the cheats to "estimate" over generously where there ball crossed the margin of the hazard and yet that rule does not seem to be challenged on that basis.

It could be that your dropping point from a water hazard is 50 yards away from where your ball landed - or sank. And on a fairway. The difference, of course, is that with the new local rule you are guaranteed the fairway possibility but it costs you a stroke more than water hazard relief.

Indeed, there are times when even a couple of yards will make all the difference in the world - especially when there's an intervening element, such as a tree trunk!

The opportunities to cheat exist in golf - anybody can do it if they choose to. This is fundamentally unavoidable, and why the rules have started with the statement they do for a long long time.

 

[Beedee]

Out of interest, what do you do if the new LR is in place, but you go out of bounds before you reach the fairway? Say it's 150 to the reach the fairway and you only find you've gone just OOB when you get to your ball at 148 yards. Is it drop just in bounds, drop in the middle or back to the tee? (assuming you didn't hit a provisional).

Lots of courses with a decent carry to the fairway frequently have a strip of grass cut to fairway length running from the tee to the fairway proper. Can you use that for the drop?

 

[jim8flog]

Out of interest, what do you do if the new LR is in place, but you go out of bounds before you reach the fairway? Say it's 150 to the reach the fairway and you only find you've gone just OOB when you get to your ball at 148 yards. Is it drop just in bounds, drop in the middle or back to the tee? (assuming you didn't hit a provisional).

Lots of courses with a decent carry to the fairway frequently have a strip of grass cut to fairway length running from the tee to the fairway proper. Can you use that for the drop?

This is the wording for the LR which covers exactly the situation you describe

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

 

[Beedee]

This is the wording for the LR which covers exactly the situation you describe

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

Ah fair enough - thanks

 

[cliveb]

Out of interest, what do you do if the new LR is in place, but you go out of bounds before you reach the fairway? Say it's 150 to the reach the fairway and you only find you've gone just OOB when you get to your ball at 148 yards. Is it drop just in bounds, drop in the middle or back to the tee? (assuming you didn't hit a provisional).

Lots of courses with a decent carry to the fairway frequently have a strip of grass cut to fairway length running from the tee to the fairway proper. Can you use that for the drop?

Notwithstanding the replies you've had, I'll just point out that in practice if your shot was so bad it went OB before it got to the fairway, then you wouldn't ever choose to take this 2 penalty shot drop - you'll just play three off the tee. In which case figuring out the reference point is moot.

 

[Colin L]

Notwithstanding the replies you've had, I'll just point out that in practice if your shot was so bad it went OB before it got to the fairway, then you wouldn't ever choose to take this 2 penalty shot drop - you'll just play three off the tee. In which case figuring out the reference point is moot.

If this was directed just at Beedee, then fair enough. You presumably know him. If it's a generalisation about what all golfers would do, it's untenable. The model local rule seems clear enough: you need a patch of closely mown ground such as a forward tee or a grass path.

 

[duncan mackie]

If this was directed just at Beedee, then fair enough. You presumably know him. If it's a generalisation about what all golfers would do, it's untenable. The model local rule seems clear enough: you need a patch of closely mown ground such as a forward tee or a grass path.

It does say that, buy I'm happy to take a bet that at some point it will either be an early candidate for a decision or be modified to include something along the lines of "In the absence of any closely mown ground the reference area will extend to the centre line of the hole being played".

 

[cliveb]

If this was directed just at Beedee, then fair enough. You presumably know him. If it's a generalisation about what all golfers would do, it's untenable.

No, I don't know him and it was meant as a generalisation. I can't fathom why somebody who has put their tee shot OB before the fairway even begins would choose to play their fourth shot from not very far forward instead of their third shot from the tee. (Perhaps if it's a very long carry that they feel is beyond their capabilities and there is a forward tee they can drop on, but that seems a fairly extreme situation).

 

[Beedee]

No, I don't know him and it was meant as a generalisation. I can't fathom why somebody who has put their tee shot OB before the fairway even begins would choose to play their fourth shot from not very far forward instead of their third shot from the tee. (Perhaps if it's a very long carry that they feel is beyond their capabilities and there is a forward tee they can drop on, but that seems a fairly extreme situation).

Ok, maybe not OOB, but inexplicably lost - we've all hit one that we sure we'll find only to be scuppered when we get there. Anyway - question answered - thanks.

Another question (I admit the previous question was a what-if edge-case type of question - this one could be real for me)

On our 5th hole there's a large, long pond that is very much in play off the tee. Right of the pond is the fairway, left is the boundary of the course marked by a large hedge. My usual bad shot is in the pond, but on one occasion I hit a shocker that cleared the pond and went OOB (a long way up). The ball entered the hazard area via yellow stakes, and without touching the ground or water cleared the hedge. So is that one OOB (drop well up the fairway), or in the hazard (drop behind the pond a long way back)?

Thanks

 

[rulefan]

Ok, maybe not OOB, but inexplicably lost - we've all hit one that we sure we'll find only to be scuppered when we get there. Anyway - question answered - thanks.

Another question (I admit the previous question was a what-if edge-case type of question - this one could be real for me)

On our 5th hole there's a large, long pond that is very much in play off the tee. Right of the pond is the fairway, left is the boundary of the course marked by a large hedge. My usual bad shot is in the pond, but on one occasion I hit a shocker that cleared the pond and went OOB (a long way up). The ball entered the hazard area via yellow stakes, and without touching the ground or water cleared the hedge. So is that one OOB (drop well up the fairway), or in the hazard (drop behind the pond a long way back)?

Thanks

Where the ball is is what matters. It doesn't matter what route it took to get there.
If it crossed the OOB margin last and finished there, that is what counts.