New Rules 2019 - Out of Bounds

[backwoodsman]

I'm quite amused by the "over my dead body will it happen at my club" reaction that is around. The LR is only an alternative way of making sure you can get on with your game when you go out of bounds or lose your ball. It's really no different from being allowed to play from outside a water hazard [penalty area to be] other than being more punitive. You have to have a way to carry on when your ball is in the middle of a lake; you have to have a way to carry on when your ball is out of bounds or not found. I don't hear the same people reacting to being allowed to drop a ball outside a bunker with a 2 stroke penalty, but it's just the same - a way of allowing you to carry on when otherwise you are stuck. Maybe they all died before they reached that page.


By the way, how far back do diehards want to go in protecting the rules as they were. This from the Rules in 1904, for example:

32 If a ball be driven out of bounds, a ball shall be dropped at the spot from which the stroke was played, under penalty of loss of the distance.

Colin,

Not sure what point you are trying to illustrate with your 1904 example? Any chance of elucidation.

 

[jim8flog]

Sorry, do I understand this right: there are players who take a drop from OB in qualifiers?
Who are these people and why do the handicapping authorities let them get away with it?

This LR is not available currently. It will be an optional LR from 1st January 2019. If a club decides to introduce the LR then there is no 'getting away with it' as it is an allowable local rule and CONGU simply state the game must be played in accordance with the R&A Rules of Golf and that includes allowable Local Rules.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You could point out to him that it is explicitly not intended for "elite" golf. You can only introduce a procedure which is not meant to be applied at all levels of golf by making it a local rule. If it were fixed in the Rule Book, it would apply to everyone, hacker, elite amateur, and all professionals.

Very good point

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can a club have the LR apply to specific hole(s) - one or more but not all?

 

[rulefan]

A Committee may introduce such a Local Rule for all play on the course or only for one or two specific holes where it may be especially useful (for example, where players are unable to see the landing area and therefore may not know whether or not to play a provisional ball).

 

[cliveb]

This LR is not available currently. It will be an optional LR from 1st January 2019. If a club decides to introduce the LR then there is no 'getting away with it' as it is an allowable local rule and CONGU simply state the game must be played in accordance with the R&A Rules of Golf and that includes allowable Local Rules.

I think you've misunderstood my question. (I appreciate that this new LR will come into force in 2019).

I was responding to what rulefan said about the new LR being a reaction to something that already happens. I took this to mean that there are players out there *right now* who are taking drops in response to OB shots - ie. against the current rules. I wanted to verify whether they are doing this in qualifiers, in which case how come they are allowed to get away with it *under the current rules*?

 

[duncan mackie]

I think you've misunderstood my question. (I appreciate that this new LR will come into force in 2019).

I was responding to what rulefan said about the new LR being a reaction to something that already happens. I took this to mean that there are players out there *right now* who are taking drops in response to OB shots - ie. against the current rules. I wanted to verify whether they are doing this in qualifiers, in which case how come they are allowed to get away with it *under the current rules*?

Rulefan was referring to social golf in the UK and US (from comments he has made previously). In the latter it's a very common practice to just "put one down" and get on with things.

 

[rulefan]

As DM suggests, I was referring to social golf in the CONGU area but primarily about the US where ostensibly 'all scores' count (even when playing alone).

 

[cliveb]

As DM suggests, I was referring to social golf in the CONGU area but primarily about the US where ostensibly 'all scores' count (even when playing alone).

OK, fair enough regards social golf in the UK.
But if all scores count in the US, then surely routinely breaking the rules is a bit suss?

 

[atticusfinch]

I think this LR was prompted solely by speed of play concerns. It bothers me because I do not think the rules should be changed to solve speed of play problems, mostly because of the potential damage to golf's fundamental principles. There are other, non rules ways of dealing with it. IMHO

 

[rulefan]

But if all scores count in the US, then surely routinely breaking the rules is a bit suss?

Indeed

 

[Fish]

Out of curiosity, what is the procedure for clubs introducing any of these new LR’s, and more importantly, inline with them coming into force Jan 1st 2019, what’s the lead/time frames to make sure their implemented (in situ) in time.

 

[clubchamp98]

Can see this being a problem!

What happens if ops disagree about it going oob, where it crosses the boundary, if there’s heavy rough before the oob fence.
At least if you have to go back it’s cut and dried everyone knows where the tee is.
Can you let your mate have a nice drop but not someone you don’t know?

I can hear the moaning already.

 

[chrisd]

Can see this being a problem!

What happens if ops disagree about it going oob, where it crosses the boundary, if there’s heavy rough before the oob fence.
At least if you have to go back it’s cut and dried everyone knows where the tee is.
Can you let your mate have a nice drop but not someone you don’t know?

I can hear the moaning already.

I might be totally wrong but my understanding is that it will cover a lost ball too and the decision surely will be the players alone and, if they've searched for up to 3 minutes it'll either be found or lost, in or OOB and so the player can follow the local rule if there's one in place - but I could be wrong!

 

[Colin L]

I think this LR was prompted solely by speed of play concerns. It bothers me because I do not think the rules should be changed to solve speed of play problems, mostly because of the potential damage to golf's fundamental principles. There are other, non rules ways of dealing with it. IMHO

I'm not clear what fundamental principal might be dmaaged and how this damage might occur.

 

[atticusfinch]

I'm not clear what fundamental principal might be dmaaged and how this damage might occur.

Principle: the ball can only be played if it lies on the course; penalty strokes are intended to simulate an allowed stroke.

E.G. A ball in a hazard could be played because both the ball and the hazard are on the course, so the ROG allow the player to simulate a shot from the hazard by dropping outside the hazard with a one stroke penalty.

An OB ball cannot be played because it is not on the course. The rules only allow a ball lying off the course to be returned to the course by playing from the previous spot (a do-over, S&D). The new LR rule allows returning an OB ball to the course without a do-over, thus simulating a shot that is not allowed.

 

[Fish]

Principle: the ball can only be played if it lies on the course; penalty strokes are intended to simulate an allowed stroke.

E.G. A ball in a hazard could be played because both the ball and the hazard are on the course, so the ROG allow the player to simulate a shot from the hazard by dropping outside the hazard with a one stroke penalty.

An OB ball cannot be played because it is not on the course. The rules only allow a ball lying off the course to be returned to the course by playing from the previous spot (a do-over, S&D). The new LR rule allows returning an OB ball to the course without a do-over, thus simulating a shot that is not allowed.

I don’t get this, unless I’m missing something!

If I go into a lateral hazard ditch, I’m off the course per se, ok I’m not outside of a boundary but then not all OOB’s are boundary markers either!

If that lateral hazard was off the tee for example then I’m taking S&D and playing 3, if I’m reading the new LR right, if I drive OOB as I did at Hinckley on Tuesday on their 1st where there are internal OOB markers, I can walk down, retrieve my ball (not always possible), and agree with my PP’s where the ball crossed, take a drop and add S&D and play 3, thus speeding the whole process of not taking a provisional or walking back after being unsuccessful in finding the original ball, plus with only 3 minutes not 5, the whole process should be significantly quicker overall.

May I ask in addition, how many club lengths is it from the OOB line you crossed you drop (no nearer), as in most cases where the OOB will be a boundary, or like my 13th, the river, we won’t be able to take a line from the flag backwards as there’s nowhere to go!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don’t get this, unless I’m missing something!

If I go into a lateral hazard ditch, I’m off the course per se, ok I’m not outside of a boundary but then not all OOB’s are boundary markers either!

If that lateral hazard was off the tee for example then I’m taking S&D and playing 3, if I’m reading the new LR right, if I drive OOB as I did at Hinckley on Tuesday on their 1st where there are internal OOB markers, I can walk down, retrieve my ball (not always possible), and agree with my PP’s where the ball crossed, take a drop and add S&D and play 3, thus speeding the whole process of not taking a provisional or walking back after being unsuccessful in finding the original ball, plus with only 3 minutes not 5, the whole process should be significantly quicker overall.

May I ask in addition, how many club lengths is it from the OOB line you crossed you drop (no nearer), as in most cases where the OOB will be a boundary, or like my 13th, the river, we won’t be able to take a line from the flag backwards as there’s nowhere to go!

You’ll be playing 4 under the new rule, it’s a 2 shot penalty.
Very good video here:
https://www.rules.golf/

 

[Fish]

You’ll be playing 4 under the new rule, it’s a 2 shot penalty.
Very good video here:
https://www.rules.golf/

So it won’t necessarily reduce the time in taking a provisional then if it’s OOB off the tee, or anywhere in fact if you see it go OOB, as taking the normal penalty of a provisional is 1 shot less!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you take a provisional you can’t use the new rule.
I see it more useful when you don’t take a provisional because you either think it’s inbounds or think you’ll find it.
Once you’re there you either discover it’s oob or you can’t find it, it would save the walk back to the tee.