D-S
Well-known member
I assume he was responding to a clamour for much longer rounds.
New course rating
- Thread starter Jason.H
- Start date
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
As you describe it though, you have input, and input is considered. That is scope for diffeent evaluations. That others agree, is by the way. That might just be coincidence or group think. Thay input exists, and thus might or might not be given, means human variance is in the system. Debate, by definition, if it is in this process, means the result is a spectrum, not a defined point
wjemather
Well-known member
Such course changes should not have been done without at least speaking to the local rating team about re-rating. Moving and creating obstacles, particularly those which trigger stroke-and-distance, can have a significant effect, particularly on Slope as their effect is greater for higher handicappers.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The course is a very good place to play but in recent years has been 'toughened' up quite considerably and I would wonder if this would affect the course rating , which currently is less than par.Sounds like a dream place to play....
It is certainly noticeable that winning scores have increased.
When I first joined the club nearly 40 years ago there were 10s of thousands of trees less than now and you could hit a 5 iron from virtually anywhere in the 'rough'. You had to think nett 60 as a winning score in Div 2. I once shot a nett 60 and was 5th.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Why has it not been re-rated? Is Somerset short of rating teams or have the changes only happened over the winter?
Incidentally, what is the length and par? Do all tees have the same par?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I do not know why it has not been rerated since it was done in preparation for the WHS. Probably because no one has asked for it to be done.
The changes have been slow and gradual really over several years eg change of mowing here and there. It definitely has become a course better suited to those that can drive the ball with a 230+ carry. There are now at least 2 holes where I cannot make the carry to the fairway in winter and one hole where even if you make the carry you inevitably end up in the rough because of where the fairway is now mown (steep sidehill).
Par is the same for both tees and has been for many years. Par was adjusted back in that late 80s/early 90s when it was allowed to be done on difficulty rather than outright length. It only affected 3 par 4/5s which originally became par 5s for both tees allthough one has now become a par 4 for both tees.
wjemather
Well-known member
Yeovil Golf Club is affiliated to the Dorset union.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Aah, I see. Part in one and part in the other split by the Yeo.
chrisd
Major Champion
Our ratings have gone up eg whites from 124 to 130 it'll be interesting to see what effect it has when the white tees are open again - any thoughts?
rulefan
Tour Winner
When were thy previously rated? pre 2018? Has the length changed?
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
I appreciate that but these are usually a single rating based on a one to five scale (from memory) and have little impact compared with length.
DickInShorts
Newbie
I’m sure I recall a few years ago the rough was cut back at Yeovil to speed up play as lots of balls were being lost!
I wonder if the new policy will attract/retain members who may find their rounds become a struggle rather than enjoyment?
That was one of the factors why I left my previous club - you were penalised twice for a bad shot - if you could find the ball!
chrisd
Major Champion
I guess it was about then. No, the length hasn't changed at all, we always felt that the original rating was not correct as our course is harder than most in our area but was rated lower than they all were. There was said that the original rating was done by someone who had some sort of grudge against our club but i don't think that was ever persued
Swango1980
Well-known member
What is your course rating compared to other courses in your area, especially in comparison to Par? You are not falling into the trap that you are using Slope to compare absolute difficulty? For example, I know a few links courses that are long and very tough, yet have lower slopes that other inland courses in the area that one would generally consider easier. However, things become clearer when you see the links courses actually have a relatively higher Course Rating.
Also, I'm not sure how anybody with a grudge against a club could influence the ratings in such a way, when it is apparently almost entirely based on objective measurements. Unless they have literally ignored the measurements and just arbitrarily set a number
chrisd
Major Champion
You may well be right about the grudge but I'm only repeating what i was told, i accept it as just hearsay.
The local courses to me are pretty well all tree lined courses like ours, and ours have always been thought to be around 2 to 3 higher handicap for a the same level of golfer at the other courses. Certainly when i left my first ever course to move to my current one i was told I'd go up 3 shots and i certainly did
Swango1980
Well-known member
What is your CR and Par?
wjemather
Well-known member
Having been remeasured for re-rating, your course was nearly 60 yards shorter than previously measured. On its own, this would have reduced the Course Rating slightly.
However, since your Course Rating remained the same and only the Slope increased, other factors must have changed. These would be things like longer rough, faster greens, increased obstacle severity, etc. - i.e. things that affect higher handicappers more than scratch players.
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chrisd
Major Champion
70.9 and now 130 off whites par is 71
Swango1980
Well-known member
I suppose CR doesn't seem overly high, albeit I know a lot of courses have a CR that can be quite a bit lower than par.
In comparison, my old course was an absolute nightmare to play when you were off it, as fairways were surrounded by hedges and jungle. But it was short, so if you played well and kept it in play, you generally scored well. As such the CR was relatively low (69.4 whites, 66.8 yellows, both Par 70), but Slope was higher than quite a few "harder" courses in an absolute sense, 133 off whites and 130 off yellows.
Perhaps a decent comparison to that is Seacroft, a links course on the Lincolnshire coast. Off black tees, the Slope is only 122, yet I find it a brutal course. However, CR is higher, at 72.8 (compared to Par 71).
Then you look at my current course. Off yellows, it has a Slope of 141. Some might think it is almost as difficult as Carnoustie Championship Course off the Blue (Open Championship) tees, which has a Slope of 143. However, my course has a CR of 70.3 (-0.7 under Par), whereas Carnoustie has a CR of 77.4 (+5.2 over Par). So Carnoustie is clearly tougher overall.
I suspect when CR-Par is introduced next year, it will provide some clarity to this sort of thing. Rather than trying to compare Slopes and CRs between courses, it'll probably be easier to compare the course handicap you'd play off at either course to get an indication as to which one will generally be "tougher"
D-S
Well-known member
The other component you need is the length 70.9 on a 6000 yard course means it’s tough, 70.9 on a 6500 course means it’s easy. Par is irrelevant unless your looking at scores, not absolute difficulty.
